# Why is it hard to eliminate cheating in professional chess? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 13, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034 "2019-07-13T19:25:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/21 "2019-07-18T19:17:24Z")
Chalk me up as one who didn’t really know there WAS cheating in chess, let alone that it’s a widespread problem. I’m absolutely floored by it. I never even considered people cheating in chess. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/22 "2019-07-18T20:19:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Technology has completely ruined online chess. It is completely impossible to tell if someone is using a computer to do their moves. > > This has both the problem that if you lose, you don’t know if you lost to a person or a computer, and if you win, they may very well think that you cheated. My guess is is that most online chess is done by bots against bots these days, but I haven’t played in a good while. Cheating is at least fairly common in online chess, and I agree that for amateurs, the main problem is this psychological one where any good play is suspicious. I’m a decent player, but there are certainly many stronger players around who can beat me unaided. Still, when I lose online games I do often have the suspicion in the back of my mind, even if there aren’t the telltale signs. One thing that’s happening in chess generally is a move towards faster time controls, both online and over-the-board. I’m not sure whether this is a direct reaction to cheating issues, but it does provide some defense against it. Playing something like a 10-minute game online makes rudimentary cheating trivial - you could just have an engine running and manually copy moves back and forth. Playing fast blitz or bullet doesn’t give enough time for this. Similarly for over-the-board chess, classical games last for a few hours, so it’s common for players to use the washroom or wander around the playing hall. But in rapid games players will usually stay at the board, so someone running off every game to the washroom would be obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/23 "2019-07-18T22:29:45Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > Side question: After a few days of reporting that Rausis was caught using his phone, news outlets started reporting that Rausis admitted to cheating, but I have not seen the actual admission. Phone use of any sort in the playing area is already cheating. Use is already banned in the playing area. Use during a match, even during a bathroom break, is even worse. At best, any devices have to be completely switched off. It’s better to hand it to someone for safe keeping. Using it at all during a break while the match was ongoing would be beyond the pale, as it means he had to deliberately turn it on or have smuggled it in beforehand to evade any checks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/24 "2019-07-19T02:14:24Z")
Eh, it wouldn’t be that hard to write a program to directly interface with the chess website, so you could just start up your blitz game, turn on your engine, and come back five minutes later when it’s won. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/25 "2019-07-19T02:46:17Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I’m absolutely floored by it. I never even considered people cheating in chess. I think it would be hard to name a competitive activity humans engage in but never cheat at. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/26 "2019-07-19T03:59:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Eh, it wouldn’t be that hard to write a program to directly interface with the chess website, so you could just start up your blitz game, turn on your engine, and come back five minutes later when it’s won. Yes that’s true, but I think the majority of cheaters wouldn’t put that amount of effort into it. And there are further detection methods possible as well. The banter blitz events on Chess24 were mentioned above. Those are just casual games, but for some similar events there are now webcams on the players, so that provides defence against cheating as well. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/27 "2019-07-19T08:02:03Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I think it would be hard to name a competitive activity humans engage in but never cheat at. I think this deserves a thread of its own. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/28 "2019-07-19T09:15:43Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > And this is how we get Skynet 😃 And that one won’t ever learn that the only winning move is not to play !!! :smack: 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/29 "2019-07-19T15:40:49Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I think it would be hard to name a competitive activity humans engage in but never cheat at. Tic-tac-toe. But only because it’s pretty hard to. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/30 "2019-07-19T16:40:43Z")
Sorry, I hadn’t seen this thread which was meant to prevent a hijack: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=879002](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=879002) ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/31 "2019-07-19T19:27:38Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Phone use of any sort in the playing area is already cheating. Phone use isn’t cheating. Phone use is against the rules, but not everything that is against the rules should be called cheating, lest that word lose any sense of meaning. The headlines suggest that he admitted to using his phone for chess purposes, but I’ve only seen him admit to using his phone, full stop. I was curious if he went beyond that or if he is trying to maintain that he was say, looking at stock prices. During his game. In the bathroom. Fully clothed. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/32 "2019-07-19T19:34:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Eh, it wouldn’t be that hard to write a program to directly interface with the chess website, so you could just start up your blitz game, turn on your engine, and come back five minutes later when it’s won. Screen-scraping engines are readily available, under the stated purpose of adding value when watching chess videos/streams. Even in bullet time controls, that should be plenty fast enough to use even without interfacing back into a game’s controls, especially in sharp positions. For blitz, there’s no question. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/33 "2019-07-19T22:11:34Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > [Grandmaster flush -- Chess player cheated in toilet - ESPN](https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/27182239/grandmaster-flush-chess-player-cheated-toilet) > > The comment at the end surprised me. Surely you can separate players from certain types of technology during a game, right? I’ve played in a lot of international chess tournaments. Firstly I don’t think there’s a lot of cheating in chess. The main ways I can think of would be: - bribing your opponent - using computer access to get the best moves - arranging a whole fake tournament :eek: 1. Bribery can be hard to keep secret (and how do the participants trust each other?) I remember playing one Grandmaster who had an alleged reputation for bribery … I drew with the stronger player (and the subject never came up.) 2. Computers can certainly help beat any human player. However a player will probably need to use the computer regularly during a single game. So it’s possible to take one ‘toilet break’ and thus get one top-class move (though cheats have been caught doing that), but not to play a whole game live using a computer. (It also looks incredibly suspicious to leave the board when it’s your move.) (There have been a few instances of players using a ‘hearing aid’.) 3. There were rumours of a couple of events that were organised to accept a large payment from one player to get a fantastic result for themself. Of course any player who has a giant leap in rating after one event, but then struggles to maintain that also comes under suspicion (and could easily lose the rating points back.) > [@Atamasama](#): > > I’d love to see chess competitions in a Faraday cage Thunderdome. This has been done. Not a full Faraday Cage, but the players were under constant observation and there was no distracting noise from spectators. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Technology has completely ruined online chess. It is completely impossible to tell if someone is using a computer to do their moves. Yes correspondence chess (formerly played by snail mail, recently by e-mail) is particularly vulnerable to computer cheating. One ‘defence’ would be to examine all the moves in a game and see how closely they correspond to the moves a program would recommend. That would be time-consuming (and a player could ‘throw in’ a few moves of his own.) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/34 "2019-07-19T22:17:46Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > Phone use isn’t cheating. Phone use is against the rules, but not everything that is against the rules should be called cheating, lest that word lose any sense of meaning. You need to concentrate hard during international chess. Using a phone for fun during a game is a silly idea. In any case, getting computer assistance from a phone is trivial, which is why it’s against the rules. So any phone use should definitely be called cheating. I’ve seen players defaulted just for having their phone ring during the British Chess Championship, let alone using it. If you are expecting an urgent phone call, then leave your phone with the arbiter (=referee) and let them witness the entire call. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/35 "2019-07-19T22:29:24Z")
Just to cheer up the honest folk, here’s two anecdotes: a) I was playing in the British Chess Championship and during the game, I held a door open to let Grandmaster Speelman enter. I’d known him for decades (ever since we’d played alongside each other for our Junior County side.) So I muttered “Hello” to him. He ignored me completely! :smack: After our separate games finished, he quickly came up to me and explained that he couldn’t be seen talking to me during the play. I thought he meant that he would be considered guilty of giving me advice (since he was the much higher rated player.) He actually said “I can’t have any conversation with you, since you might be giving me advice!” 🆒 Well he’s always been a gentleman - and it made my day. 🙂 b) later in the same event, my parents made a surprise visit to watch me play. I actually walked straight past them. :eek: It wasn’t that they could give me advice (neither of them played chess), but that i was calculating variations in my head… ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/36 "2019-07-19T23:58:00Z")
> [@glee](#): > > You need to concentrate hard during international chess. Using a phone for fun during a game is a silly idea. Agreed. But I don’t know why you would call that cheating. Yes, it is a cheating-level infraction to use a phone for any purpose because you could be cheating trivially if you are using a phone. But my question was whether Rausis admitted to using his phone for chess purposes. (His statement that I’ve seen is a bit incongruous with an admission of cheating, hence my question.) > [@](#): > > In any case, getting computer assistance from a phone is trivial, which is why it’s against the rules. So any phone use should definitely be called cheating. Yes, any phone use should be considered sufficient evidence of cheating (even if one isn’t cheating). These semantics are irrelevant to my question about Rausis. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/37 "2019-07-20T07:19:49Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > Agreed. But I don’t know why you would call that cheating. Yes, it is a cheating-level infraction to use a phone for any purpose because you could be cheating trivially if you are using a phone. But my question was whether Rausis admitted to using his phone for chess purposes. (His statement that I’ve seen is a bit incongruous with an admission of cheating, hence my question.) OK, if you’re not satisfied that being caught even having a phone automatically disqualifies you (and GM Rausis undoubtedly knows that) as a case of cheating, then here’s some more evidence. From this article: - Rausis had been under investigation for years (after his rating increased dramatically, despite him being in his fifties) - Rausis said “I simply lost my mind yesterday. … At least what I committed yesterday is a good lesson, not for me—I played my last game of chess already.” - Rausis left the tournament after the phone was discovered So technically, Rausis has not admitted using the phone to analyse. On the other hand, he left the tournament, claims to have given up chess and (as a GM) would have been stupid using the phone just for distracting fun… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/38 "2019-07-20T23:54:40Z")
I presume that a skilled chess player, illegally using the phone during a bathroom break, is going to get a lot more than one great move out of it. He’s going to be looking at likely opponent responses to that move, and the best moves against each of them, and so on, such that for at least a few moves after the cheat, he’ll be “on book”. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/39 "2019-07-21T16:33:02Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Tic-tac-toe. But only because it’s pretty hard to. I was once playing tic-tac-toe with my granddaughter, who was about 5 years old at the time. She had an X in the center square and an X in the square immediately above it. She made her next move ABOVE that one, outside the playing area, and claimed that she’d won with 3 in a row. I objected that her last move wasn’t in a square. She then dutifully drew a square around her last move. At that point I had to admit that she had indeed won. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034/40 "2019-07-21T21:25:31Z")
I suspect a future lawyer. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-hard-to-eliminate-cheating-in-professional-chess/837034.md?page=3)