# Why is it illegal to possess Cuban cigars or is it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044 "2010-01-15T04:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DonJorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/47e85d/32.png) [@DonJorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonJorge)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/61 "2010-01-20T15:09:47Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > How is that enforced? I mean, I can- quite legally- buy Cuban cigars and Cuban rum from any tobacconist or decent liquor store in Australia. As I understand it, if a company does business with Cuba, they are not allowed to do business in USA. This does not affect many small, mid-size companies, but its a big issue for bigger ones (say Toyota, Merck, Roche, Sony, etc.) who can not afford to lose the US market over a few pesos in Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/62 "2010-01-20T19:51:46Z")
Let me pose this hypothetical: I’m an American. Suppose as a graduation gift, someone gives me one Cuban cigar he recently bought in Canada. Not being a smoker, I just stash it away somewhere in my house. Have I broken the law and, if tipped off, does the government have as much cause to search my house and arrest me as it would if had several kilos of heroin? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/63 "2010-01-20T21:13:24Z")
> [@DonJorge](#): > > As I understand it, if a company does business with Cuba, they are not allowed to do business in USA. This does not affect many small, mid-size companies, but its a big issue for bigger ones (say Toyota, Merck, Roche, Sony, etc.) who can not afford to lose the US market over a few pesos in Cuba. Which raises the interesting question of "How many links in the chain are still considered “doing business with Cuba”? I mean, a liquor store stocking Havana Club rum didn’t buy it directly from Castro, after all. They likely purchased it from a wholesaler. Who probably got it from an importer. Are they _all_ considered to be “doing business with Cuba”, or just the importer? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/64 "2010-01-20T21:18:50Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Which raises the interesting question of "How many links in the chain are still considered “doing business with Cuba”? I mean, a liquor store stocking Havana Club rum didn’t buy it directly from Castro, after all. They likely purchased it from a wholesaler. Who probably got it from an importer. Are they _all_ considered to be “doing business with Cuba”, or just the importer? Havana Club rum made in Cuba cannot be legally sold by anyone in the US. Bacardi sells a rum in the US called [Havana Club that is made in Puerto Rico.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_Club_(Bacardi)) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/65 "2010-01-20T21:29:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Havana Club rum made in Cuba cannot be legally sold by anyone in the US. Bacardi sells a rum in the US called [Havana Club that is made in Puerto Rico.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_Club_(Bacardi)) I live in Australia. The Havana Club rum we have here is made in Cuba. It even has an official Seal of Guarantee on the bottle from the Cuban Government certifying that it really is Cuban rum. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/66 "2010-01-20T22:25:26Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I live in Australia. The Havana Club rum we have here is made in Cuba. It even has an official Seal of Guarantee on the bottle from the Cuban Government certifying that it really is Cuban rum. Seriously. I believe you. I guess I didn’t understand your point. All the links in your chain are doing business with Cuba, which is entirely legal in Australia. Does that have anything to do with the US embargo? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/67 "2010-01-20T22:30:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I believe you. I guess I didn’t understand your point. All the links in your chain are doing business with Cuba, which is entirely legal in Australia. Does that have anything to do with the US embargo? Someone upthread said that any company doing business with Cuba couldn’t also do business in the US. I was trying to clarify where the dividing line was between “Doing business with Cuba” (eg actually importing their product) and simply being a retailer who happened to sell Cuban goods amongst many, many, many other non-Cuban goods. For example, if I buy a bottle of Wild Turkey, I wouldn’t say that I’d been doing business with America to get it. I’ve been doing business with my local liquor retailer, who in turn has been doing business with a wholesaler, who has been doing business with an importer, who in turn has been doing business with America to get it; if that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![DonJorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/47e85d/32.png) [@DonJorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonJorge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/68 "2010-01-21T15:36:51Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Someone upthread said that any company doing business with Cuba couldn’t also do business in the US. I was trying to clarify where the dividing line was between “Doing business with Cuba” (eg actually importing their product) and simply being a retailer who happened to sell Cuban goods amongst many, many, many other non-Cuban goods. The Helms-Burton Act, which defines the embargo, estates in it’s Title III that sanctions “may also be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba.” This restriction also applies to maritime shipping, as ships docking at Cuban ports are not allowed to dock at U.S. ports for six months. The trading with Cuba part refers to " purchase, transport, import, or otherwise deal in or engage in any transaction with respect to any merchandise outside the United States if such merchandise: (1) Is of Cuban origin; or (2) Is or has been located in or transported from or through Cuba; or (3) Is made or derived in whole or in part of any article which is the growth, produce or manufacture of Cuba. " As this is related to the goods themselves, it apepars that everyone in your chain of supply, as far as it’s a company (so this excludes you, the final purchaser), “may” have santions applied. These sanctions also include “deny entry to the U.S. of the leadership of such companies”. [Legal document in PDF](http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/legal/regs/31cfr515.pdf). All this said, the truth appears to be, as stated up thread, that Cuban cigars are illegal, and Chinese tea is not, just because there are a lot of cuban-american votes in Florida, while not enough chinese-american votes in California (or wherever). Most of those Cuban-american votes come from second generation immigrants from Cuba, whose parents were expropriated of their properties, and have no sympathy for a revolution that converted them form elite citizens in the island to ‘second class’ refugees in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044/69 "2010-01-21T17:04:32Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > America does a good propeganda job. I was surprised at how different it is in reality compared to the TV shows I’ve seen. A lot more beggers, not as technologically advanced as I’d thought, and pretty dirty. On the tv shows it appears to be filled with rich people living in spotless cities with the best technology. I wonder how many cubans are disappointed when they actually see what it’s like? And I bet the new arrivals are desperately hoping they don’t get sick… Then once they realize how horrible things are you’d think they’d want to go back. _They don’t._ I am certain many Cubans are quite happy there, but they aren’t the sort to go through all that trouble to leave. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-illegal-to-possess-cuban-cigars-or-is-it/525044.md?page=3)