You’ve added very little to this discussion other than repeatedly calling me disengenuous, telling me my points are irrelevant, and telling me how it’s *not *about stereotypes. I’d love to actually hear what YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE TOPIC AT HAND, instead of my ability (or lack thereof) to write an OP or state an opinion.
How can I address what you think is the “real question” if I don’t know what you’re talking about?
This isn’t about calling names. Who’s saying that’s ok? How is connecting an ethnic food with the people of that ethnicity/culture acist? I’m not talking about name calling or otherwise dehumanizing a group.
sigh You don’t get how “beans and rice” and “beaner” are related?
:dubious:
Try posts #9 and #17, for starters.
That’s a typo–I meant “ethnic.”
on Food stations they always cook the stereotypical dishes from a particular region. are they the last place allowed to not be politically correct?
here’s a joke: a 5’6" guy, a 5’7" guy & a 5’8" guy are sitting at a bar. there are flies in each of their beers. the 5’8" guy pushes his away. the 5’7" guy pick out the fly & drinks the beer down. the 5’6" guy picks out the fly & says, “Spit it out, damn you!” can anybody guess the ethnicity of the 5’6" guy?
So as a Brit, as one of a party of Brits travelling in the U.S. I should feel hurt, humiliated and god knows what else, if a Yank says to us “We’d better get you people some fish and chips and some warm beer”.
Because he’s somehow implying that we are in some way different to you ?
Well I’ve news for you, we are . (Though like most Brits I won’t drink warm beer)
While we share many things as in language, history, culture and general outlook, we are not the same.
Most Americans will recognise us as being Limeys, just as we would recognise Americans in London.
Theres nothing derogratory in recognising the differences between various social groups.
Indeed it would be bizarre if we didn’t.
The people who spend all day, every day looking to be hurt and offended by real or imagined insults; make a mockery of the suffering of the real victims of racism/homophobia etc.etc.
And damage the fight against genuine persecution with their drama queen antics, because the general, slightly apathetic public soon start developing compassion fatigue.
After day after day, incident after incident of spurious complaints of insults/persecution from the " poor little me "brigade they tend to turn a deaf ear when a genuine victim of abuse seeks help.
They think that its more “chip on the shoulder”, whining from attention seekers.
If you really are offended at people being aware of your social group then it would seem that you have issues about actually being a member of your social group.
If thats the case then its down to you to come to terms with it.
Its not down to the rest of the world to continually second guess everything that they are about to say or do, just because you are in the room.
Note well I’m not talking about real racism/other isms which are intentionally intended to be hurtful, abusive or insulting.
And there is usually no doubt whatsoever when people do this ,as they actually want their victim to know that it is intentional.
That’s one of the ost remarkably naive posts I think I’ve ever seen on the SDMB.
I’m very proud of my Mexican-American heritage. My family came to the new world with Conquistadors and gradually moved north until they settled in the northern part of what is now the U.S. state of New Mexico. My heritage is so important to me that we’ve taken a pebble from a mountainside of the region and cutting it cut to be an inlay in my wedding band.
Yet I don’t speak Spanish, I’m not Catholic, and I did not grow up eating beans and rice. Beans and rice are not a regular part of my diet and never have been. I do however consume copious amounts of sushi. Not fitting my food stereotypes doesn’t make me uncomfortable with my heritage anymore that eating all the sushi means I wish I was Japanese.
I do not fit the stereotypes of my cultural heritage. If I take umbrage at the fact that you are making grossly erroneous assumptions about who I am based on my lineage, it’s not that I’m “not happy with who I am.” Quite the contrary, I AM VERY happy with who I am, and that’s the point. Your preconceptions are way, way off base. You assume you know something abut who I am without investing any time in getting to know me.
I agree there is nothing wrong with recognizing and celebrating different cultures and their attributes that make them distinct and recognizable, but context and history is very important.
(Emphasis mine.) Why, so you can nitpick, argue, and rant about it?
Several people have told you why it can be offensive to connect a type of food to an ethnicity. Since this is the question you asked, the polite thing to do would be to thank them for the information and move on with your life. If you just wanted to whine about “PC” run amok, and it certainly looks like this was your true goal, you could have started a Pit thread.
sigh Yes, but you don’t see the difference in connecting food (rice and beans) with a Latino group in a friendly manner, and calling someone a “beaner?”
A lot of things are related, doesn’t make them the same.
That doesn’t mean that these individual people want to eat that. Maybe they came to the US because they couldn’t stand it any longer. Maybe they are eager to get to know the new cuisine of their new home. Maybe they don’t want to be singled out.
Would Rod Allen have said the team needs to get “Hamburgers” if the players were white, or would he have said that the team needs to get “food”? The latter means that you ask individual person what they want, thereby recognizing those people as individuals.
The former means grouping people by superficial characteristics, making them “one of ‘those’ people (not like us)”.
Additionally, people who make those comments often have very superficial knowledge about that culture, and therefore lump the people in the wrong category. Just because they are hispanic doesn’t mean that rice and beans are their main food.
What people think of as Italian food comes mostly from a small region, and people in Sicilia eat different from Northern Italy. In China, people in the mountains don’t always eat rice, they eat noodles and wheat (as Little Woman missionary Ai we deh discovered).
You’re picking a few well-known dishes from a very wide variety of food, ignoring the individual aspects.
An arab can well grow up without lamb and humous. An African American can decide to be a vegetarian and not eat fried chicken, or cut the mac& cheese for health reasons. An Italian can be so fed up with pasta because he ate it three times a day as child that he only eats Vietnamese fish sauce with rice and peanut butter sandwiches.
You don’t know, but you pre-judge people on their outward appearance. That is usually considered offensive.
Not all Jews, only those who observe their religion. (Not all muslims abstain from pork and alcohol, either. Not all Hindus refrain from cow). And reform Jews don’t keep kosher as strict as orthodox Jews.
Because pretending that is wrong. If I claim that all Americans eat McDonalds burgers, fries and peanut butter sandwiches only, would you say “Yes, that’s correct” or would you feel insulted because your taste is a bit wider than that?
No, it insults our intelligence to pretend that every person is the same as the rest of his ethnicity. If not every Cuban/ Italian etc. likes the national food, then how do you know if Jose Cuban or Joe Italian is typical or not?
Answer: you don’t, you stop assuming and ask them what they like.
Yes.
I’m a white European, and while it doesn’t happen enough for me to get offended by, it still happens often enough to be very very tired of it, when people lump me into the stereotype of Bavarians: wearing Dirndls and drinking beer and eating roasted pig (I do none of them, and don’t fit the damn stereotype).
So while I won’t jump into your face if you make a joke or remark about this, I will think you dumb for being the nth person to make it, and un-informed to believe that everybody fits that clichee.
(Douglas Adams had this once as sideline in Dirk Gently’s detective agency: Dirk, the detective, has just met a girl, who sits there with a thoughtful expression, and explains that she has a friend who plays the bass. Everytime her friend lugs the bass around, somebody will make the joke about “Bet you wished you’d learned to play the violin, eh?”, without thinking once of how many people may have made that joke before so it’s not funny anymore.)
It is very different for you to ask me if I like Indian food, or talk to me about Indian food, than it is to say “Why don’t you go and eat some curry or something?”
And I submit that if the OP doesn’t get that he is being deliberately disingenuous. It is tiresome to always be “other” and not recognized for who we are but just our skin color or where we are from.
Oh, and I never eat curry anything.
No, so I can actually understand what HE is talking about. He’s repeatedly called me out for being disengenuous and not answering the real question. And now you’re calling me out for asking for a clarification?
I understand, and several people have *also *made giant assumptions in this thread-- either making up their own context for the baseball announcer’s words, or making assumptions on the intent of the spoken words. Which no one seems to care to address either. People have tried explaining to me why it’s so offensive, but I find much of their logic faulty. Either because of their made-up context or made-up intent.
Also, I never intended this to be JUST about “rice and beans” and Latinos. I’ve tried to bring other food/ethnicities/cultures into it, but it seems that it repeatedly comes back to the Latino connection, and how offensive it is. I’ve mentioned others: Chinese, Japanese, Jewish, Italian, Middle Eatern, Polish. And I’ve even been told that talking about “white food” is not the issue:
and
But yes, it is. Ok, I get it that people find connecting the items “rice and beams” with Latinos is offensive. But there are dozens of other ethnicities out there to talk about. SOmeone tried bringing up English cuisine, but was immediately shot down and basically told that it’s irrelevant to the discussion. No, it’s not. This is not just a thread about Latinos and their cuisine. This was never meant to be a discussion solely on the acceptability of Rod Allen’s “rice and beans” comment.
Not my true goal, thanks for the dig, I thought this was the place to nitpick, and I suppose arguing isn’t usually done in IMHO. Apologies. And you’re probably right, I did probably start this in the wrong forum. But I actually thought this was the place to have opinions, and defend them if so desired. And because I argued against the crowd-- that means I’m disengenuous, whining, ranting, impolite, etc?
The only thing I heard that could provide some actual insight into it all was from you, Lamia, earlier in the thread:
Now that actually makes sense, and is food for thought. But the argument that “because it’s stereotyping” or the claim that “stereotyping is not the issue” doesn’t explain anything to me, because whether we like it or not, we all stereotype-- for better or worse. It happens. Whether it’s out loud or not. What I am trying to figure out (for reals, not being disengenuous or whatever) is WHY you would get upset over someone making a connection to your ethnicity via food. In most situations it’s inocuous (watermelon-eating charicatures notwithstanding).
So maybe it *does *have something to do with wealth/social status. So to discuss this further and ultimately try to answer the question I posed in the thread title, can I bring up other ethnicities/hertitages, or am I to stick with the Latino connection and keep being called disengenuous?
You’re putting the food aspect into a context that would be offensive regardless of the presence of food. “Why don’t you go pray to Vishnu..” “Why don’t you go play in traffic…” Those phrases that start with “Why don’t you…” rarely are meant to be inocuous or friendly. They’re mean/offensive/rude.
I’m not. I’ve already agreed that context is everything. And I submit that maybe possiby *you’re *being deliberately disengenuous (not saying you are, because after this thread I know how frustrating it can be to be called deliberatly disengenuous when you aren’t) by assuming that I *wouldn’t *think “Why don’t you go and eat some curry or something” to be offensive.
I actually don’t think it has anything to do with wealth or social status. I think it’s purely the issue of taking a generalized statement about a culture which is true or has some truth to it, and applying that statement to individual people about whom it may or may not be true. It’s always bad form to do that. Some black people aren’t good at basketball, some Asians aren’t good at math, and some Latinos don’t want to eat rice and beans tonight for dinner. And it’s rude to assume that they do, simply and for no other reason than they are of that particular race or ethnicity. That’s all.
That watermelon/bank teller strawman? Still not seeing it. Are you assuming that I wouldn’t find it offensive if a bank teller did something like that?
Food, like anything else, can be used to dehumanize and insult. I get it.
It’s not offensive to connect a type of food to an ethnicity, but it is silly to do so.
And above all else, its damned silly to connect a food type with a person, based on their ethnicity.
What it is not silly to do, is to connect a food type to a culture. We can generalize about the eating habits of cultures without singling out, and risk offending, any one individual.
Your initial question has as many different answers as there are ethnicities. Some ethnic groups are linked to offensive stereotypes that involve food; others are linked to offensive stereotypes that do not involve food.
In the case of Rod Allen’s remarks (which became the focus of the discussion because that’s how you decided to start your OP), some people heard the phrase “rice and beans” in association with Latino baseball players, and made the connection with the stereotype of “beaners.” The “beaner” is not merely a Latino person who eats beans; “beaner” refers to a lazy, dirty, indigent Latino person who eats beans. Not everyone assumed that Allen made that association deliberately, and so, not everyone was offended.
I want to address this point specifically. We are all hard-wired to make generalizations, and to seek relationships with people who are similar to us. However, as individuals, we can choose to continue applying those generalizations to everyone-- which is how a generalization becomes a stereotype-- or we can choose to look at people as individuals who may run counter to the stereotype in a variety of ways.
Aamika posted something clever! Woohoo! Curry for dinner tonight!
Gee, that doesn’t sound condescending or rude at all.