That opinion is so bizarre I barely know how to respond to it. Have you ever met an Asian or Hispanic person who was offended by the existence of such aisles?
Right, and I think this may be where Happy is having so many problems. Because people are giving examples of how this could be offensive, and he’s reading them like they’re examples of how they must be offensive.
Honestly, this isn’t a difficult thing to figure out. Often, people make fun of minorities by making fun of the food they eat. This does not mean that every time someone makes a joke about food, they’re being offensive. Whether a particular instance of food-related humor is offensive or not is highly subjective, depending on a variety of factors including (but not limited too) the context, the person making the joke, the group being joked about, and whether or not the joke is actually funny. It seems as if the OP is trying to pin down some hard rules for when humor like this is offensive or not, but the plain fact is, those rules don’t exist. Or if they do, they’re so insanely byzantine that you’re not going to be able to get a clear definition of them from anything short of a doctoral dissertation. Most people people have to get by on instinct for these sorts of situations.
Thank you for a reasonable take on what I’ve been trying figure out and discuss. I especially appreciate not being called disingenuous again.
Seems silly to me to be offended by such remarks. If anything, it is more offensive when someone tiptoes around, trying to avoid suggesting that a certain ethnicity might enjoy a common food in their culture – as if there is something wrong with liking that particular food.
Additionally, mainstream popular culture of a century ago and before often depicted blacks–particularly rural, Southern blacks–as shiftless and given to petty theft; and watermelons and chickens were supposedly the favorite items to steal. Even in fairly recent literature one finds references to this meme, though in this case it’s done to describe the characters who believe this.
It’s a good illustration of the fact that the connotations of a particular food with regard to a particular race or culture as has much to do with how offensive a reference to it can potentially be.
The only way I can see supermarket ethnic food aisles being offensive, is that they could (theoretically) take business away from family-owned ethnic food stores. In my experience, these aisles are mostly home to imported products. My local store’s Hispanic Foods aisle carries corn husks and menudo, among other things; but tortillas are on an endcap near the bakery, the salsa is with the rest of the condiments, the beans are kept with the rest of the dry and canned goods, the spices are all kept together, and so on. The store isn’t trying to herd all of its Hispanic customers into a single aisle for all of their shopping needs; it’s putting items that are specific to Hispanic cuisine in a single, convenient location. If you’re trying to make tamales for the first time and you have no idea if masa harina is a powder, a paste, or some kind of vegetable, the Hispanic Foods aisle is indispensable.
Suppose you’re an American in a foreign country, and you aren’t totally fluent in the language. You go grocery shopping. As you’re walking through the store, the layout is unlike anything you’ve seen at home, you have a hard time reading the labels, and the packaging looks completely different from what you’re used to-- you pick up something that looks like cookies, but on closer inspection, it’s some kind of bouillon. Then you come across a single aisle with packaging that you recognize and labels that you can read. Would you say that the operators of this store were trying to offend you, or trying to make you feel more at home so that you’ll continue to shop there?
Perhaps.
I’m not sure what your point is, other than that you are more widely traveled than I am. Good for you. I don’t know why you would think that, but good for you.
The annoying thing about your sarcastic reply is that it dismisses my opinion without putting forth any of your own. So you’ll forgive me for trying to extrapolate some meaning from what you wrote.
When you see an ethnic Chinese person who happens to have been born in the USA, you assume they have a preference for Chinese food because of their ethnicity? Would that be correct? Because I think that would be stupid. That’s the gist of my original post, if you care to read it carefully. Assuming English is not your native language, I’ll add that ‘ethnicity’ does not equal ‘country’. One might make general assumptions about cultures, as they are often useful, but making general assumptions about individuals based on their ethnicity is foolish, and sometimes insulting IMHO.
My grocery stores have an “International” aisle where such foods would go. No need to label them by individual ethnicities.
My pet peeve with store aisle labeling is hair products. Why do aisle signs have “hair products” and then “ethnic hair products.” Why!? It makes no sense. Just what do they mean by “ethnic”? Well, it’s not like they offer a United Nations selection of hair products. No, what they mean is “black people” hair products, like relaxers and stuff. But why do they need to call this “ethnic”? Surely if a person is in need of a hair product, regardless of what they look like, a sign that says “hair products” is specific enough. It is a bit crazy to have “hair products” and “ethnic hair productS” on the same freakin’ sign.
My point was and is, that those who seem to get the most upset on other peoples behalf because of trivialities, (quite often when the subjects themselves aren’t upset or offended ) tend to be to be inexpierenced in first hand knowledge of other cultures and/or lifestyles.
If you actually are an experienced world traveller then your outlook on this subject is somewhat odd to say the least.
My personal experience, and that of my friends and colleagues who are equally, or in some cases more travelled then myself, is that nationalities and ethnicities do not all think and act in exactly the same way as everyone else.
Far from it…
Which is why I find it strange that you disagree with this if you are well travelled as you seem to be hinting.
Actually English IS my first language, and is actually Englands language, the rest of you only borrow it from us .
While we’re on the subject, your comprehension of English seems to be somewhat lacking.
Of course ethnicity doesn’t equal country, but you as an experienced world traveller, obviously realise that if you go to France the major ethnic group are the French.
So the mainstream culture is French.
Likewise Africa, M.E. ,Italy whereever.
Visiting other nations and cultures doesn’t mean that you become LESS aware of cultural diversity, doesn’t mean that you become LESS experienced of how other peoples live day to day.
So you adapt your behaviour to that which doesn’t offend the main stream culture.
Did you think that ethnicity only meant ethnic minorities in countries with a mainstream culture different to their own ?
Sorry me old mucker, but it doesn’t .
I am an ethnic Englishman, even when I’m at home and surrounded by other English people.
Rather than have signs for designated ethnic foods (which some people ***might, maybe. or could ***find offensive) it would seem more PC in my opinion to have these aisles labeled “Foods Imported from Mexico, Argentina, Salvadore, Chile & Puerto Rico.” And “Foods Imported from Thailand, China, Japan, Vietnam and the Far East.” And “Foods Imported from Iran, Iraq, and the Middle East.”
Better still is an aisle labeled “International Foods” with the aisle itself having sections labeled Middle East, Far East, Europe, etc. etc.
Personally I would do much shopping on these aisles, (I’m fortunate to live in a part of the country with a large international population and I have the option of many different markets to choose from, which makes me :):):)).
I see you, Rod Allen.
I may be inexperienced in first-hand knowledge of other cultures or lifestyles, compared to you. But then again, I don’t get upset at trivialities - so it’s a moot point.
Perhaps. But I’ve spent the last 14 years living in Japan, have family in Europe and the Americas, and I question notions of ethnicity, nationality, identity, race and community every single day. I am confident I have a good grasp of the fundamentals.
Did you think I said they did?
I agree that different people don’t think and act in exactly the same way. Did I say somewhere that they did?
Then please follow the rules of English when you write. Scousers are also born in England so I find it amusing when people try to lay claim to some authority by being British. You are awesomely fun.
- So you want me to comb through almost 100 years of broadcast sports to find something that answers this question? Can I look in places like Korea and Brazil and Japan, or are you limiting me to the US? Oh wait, this questions is practically impossible to answer, and you know it, which makes it, what’s the word?
- Context: If Rod Allen’s comment was actually random, out of the blue, completely without provocation and randomly started, this might be a fair question. However, it was done in the course of play-by-play, where the origin of players can and does come up, and in informal chatter, I see nothing wrong with an off-the-cuff connection between the players’ country of origin and their country-of-origin’s native cuisine. Apparently you and others do. Done in context, and not meant to dehumanize or imply that that’s all they can and do eat or follow up by calling them names or anything else that poster have implied, but done in the context of banal baseball prattle.
- I feel like at this point you’d rather score points on me than have a discussion with me. You can make assumptions about my intent all you like, I don’t care what you think quite frankly. I am quickly finding that with any discussion of heritage/ethnicity/culture, people are very quick to apply intent to other people.
Ha!
Ah so you DON’Tget upset over trivialities, you could have fooled me.
No doubt you’re not in denial either.
Well at least you’ve come clean about your lack of experience with international travel, despite the broad hints to the contrary.
Anything else you’d care to own up to ?
Come on now, don’t be shy .
I don’t think that having family in Europe and the Americas actually cuts it as far as being informed about the world is concerned.
I have a relative who is a sheep farmer in New Zealand, but I know squat about sheep farming.
You must have a hell of a lot of spare time on your hands if you really and truly “Question notions of ethnicity and nationality and so on, and on, and on, etc.”, EVERY SINGLE DAY !
Perhaps you should get out more, meet new people, get some sort of a hobby perhaps ?
Your last paragraph is a little incoherent, I’m guessing maybe its something to do with my joke about the English lending their language to other nationalities but like I say thats only a guess .
As to the reference to Scousers you’ve totally lost me .
And to finish off I’m glad you find me, sic “awesomely fun”, its always good to bring a little pleasure into other peoples lives;even if it does sound as though you’d quite happily scratch my eyes out.
A total misinterpretation on my part no doubt, which can be laid at door of my unfamiliarity with the English language.
I agree it’s a bit othering to call hair products for white people “Hair Products” and then have a separate term for hair products for everyone else (Hispanic people have some of the same special hair care needs as Black people). However, it’s important to note that some stores don’t even carry “ethnic” hair products. A sign that says “Hair Products/Ethnic Hair Products” actually says “Yes, We Do Have Bump Stoppers, Anti-Breakage Creams, Relaxers and Texturizers.” It would be nice if all stores carried products for a wider variety of people, thus eliminating the need for special signage, but we’re not there yet.
Lust I’m not sure why you got so affronted. I made some observations that I didn’t think were particularly controversial or strange, only to have you come back with an acerbic reply about how you respect other cultures when you are in them. That is admirable, but hardly on point for this topic, don’t you think? Anyway, I’m not your enemy. I don’t hate you. And yes, I really do think about these issues daily because I’m confronted with them daily. It may be sad but it’s true.
Mac & cheese is soul food?
I’m sorry, but mac & cheese is the whitest food I can think of right off the top of my head.
The USA is called a ‘melting pot’ (food reference alert), it means that not one, but many different peoples, nations and ethnicities inhabit, cultivate and are responsible to it. I’m white, most likely Irish (ancestors fled a potato famine), male, I grew up in a white neighborhood, and I eat everything from fried chicken to tacos to pasta, I even make a stir-fry sauce (mild, medium, and super hot versions) that will have you clamoring for more. Until someone told me when I was five or so, I didn’t know that there even was such a thing as racism. I don’t know or care why people are racist (well, I do know why actually, and it’s a very stupid reason) but just because I share the same skin color with a bunch of barbarians a long time ago (whom I’m not even related to probably), I’m forced to watch what I say and how I say it, even among my own race (even an innocent comment can be twisted into racism). Just maybe, if people could get there heads out of there a**, give themselves a good kick in the nads, and not pass on their racist issues to their children, just maybe, just possibly, the next few generations will pull themselves up out of the steaming pile of garbage that our forefathers buried us in.
This isn’t an issue about food at all, food that people eat in different parts of the world, just means that the crops in that region consist of certain type, mostly because the inhabitants found that this bean, seed, or whatever, grows there very nicely, so that’s what they eat:smack:…simple as that.
No, just in personal memory. I can’t recall anything like it. Because really, there’s no reason to point out the diet of white players. They’re “normal” players. It would be equally uncalled for if the players were from West Virginia and he talked about possum pie or something.
That said, I repeat: I personally don’t find the comment that offensive. It’s racist, but not really offensive. And it’s not racist because of some evil intent on Allen’s part. As you say, he was just filling chatter into the void that baseball TV broadcast creates. I certainly wouldn’t skewer the guy for it.
Actually, not really. Again, I don’t see it as all that serious, but it still is racist. Do you see the difference? Can you understand that racism can be an impersonal mechanism of discourse, and not always a call for indictment? Because that’s all I’m saying. You’re avoiding this point, it seems. It’s not about “scoring points,” but getting beyond this personalization thing. It might seem merely academic, but it’s a conceit that turns up a lot and it rarely gets properly deconstructed.