# Why is it offensive to kneel during the anthem? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435 "2017-09-27T16:19:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/141 "2017-10-02T01:04:56Z")
How is it respectful in prayer but not for a flag? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/142 "2017-10-02T01:35:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you feel it doesn’t foster more patriotism then you do in fact understand it’s offensive in the first place. You need to work on your reasoning ability and/or reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/143 "2017-10-02T02:25:21Z")
**Magiver** , here’s a clue just in case you’re wondering where your logic is faulty: You should be blaming Fox’s decision not to air the national anthem on the loudmouths who keep drowning out the anthem with their boos. Not on the people who have decided to show their respect for the country’s ideals by quietly kneeling. It’s so strange to call kneeling during the NA disrespectful, but not actual _booing_. Just admit it. The reason why the cameras can’t just pan over the reverent audience is because there is no reverent audience. There never was a reverent audience. The audience has always been just a bunch of schmoes who’d rather use the time to piss and grab another beer, and now they’re using this kneeling thing as an excuse to be an angry \*disrespectful \*mob. Fox doesn’t want to show America what it really looks like. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/144 "2017-10-02T09:08:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If for instance, 45% of the officers murdered were disproportionately killed by 13% of the population should NFL players protest that based on race? You think that 13% of the population have killed police officers? > [@](#): > > The protests are made at an event that has nothing to do with the protest. There is no reason to insult the national Anthem at a football game. The fallout from that illogical venture is a fan base that doesn’t feel like paying for the privilege of having their country insulted. The only reason the NFL has players on the field for the anthem is because a US government agency paid them to do it. Before that, the players came out after the anthem. > [@](#): > > What would make more sense is for Kaepernick to sit on a flag pole in front of his own home until the finial is firmly seated and then rotate on it until his sinuses are cleared. He could then sell tickets to it and reap the benefits of it instead of asking his employer to provide the venue for it. Now that comment is a lot ruder than kneeling during a national anthem. But then, you sound like you have an issue with African-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/145 "2017-10-02T09:16:38Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > [It is unclear that police actually are targeting blacks disproportionately](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/upshot/police-killings-of-blacks-what-the-data-says.html) For death, maybe. But the police departments of NYC and St. Louis have both been accused of harassing and brutalizing minorities as a matter of policy, for years now. In fact, your cite says this: > [@](#): > > The data is unequivocal. Police killings are a race problem: African-Americans are being killed disproportionately and by a wide margin. And police bias may be responsible. But this data does not prove that biased police officers are more likely to shoot blacks in any given encounter. > > Instead, there is another possibility: It is simply that — for reasons that may well include police bias — African-Americans have a very large number of encounters with police officers. Every police encounter contains a risk: The officer might be poorly trained, might act with malice or simply make a mistake, and civilians might do something that is perceived as a threat. The omnipresence of guns exaggerates all these risks. The upshot of this is that blacks are killed by police because police target blacks for whatever it is that police think they’re on the job to do, and sometimes what police do is shoot people. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/146 "2017-10-02T09:43:19Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The only reason the NFL has players on the field for the anthem is because a US government agency paid them to do it. Before that, the players came out after the anthem. From [snopes.com](http://snopes.com): [Are NFL Players Required to Stand on the Field During the National Anthem?](http://www.snopes.com/must-nfl-players-stand/) The article does not address whether an unnamed US government agency has some kind of involvement with players being on the field during the national anthem, but it does address the question about whether there exists a rule about players standing. Believe what they say or don’t, I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/147 "2017-10-02T10:10:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s a tradition in this country. Protesting it is disrespectful and offensive. Sometimes disrespect is _earned._ * * * > [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s offensive to pay some POS athlete several million dollars and then see them dishonor the country that made them rich. > > I don’t think these athletes realized just how fed up people are with their privileged tantrums. The guns & domestic violence, drug abuse, and disrespect to their fans & their country. > > There are a lot of good people playing in the NFL. But, the bad eggs are ruining the reputation of everyone. The National Felons League needs a major overhaul. Your post is closer to being a tantrum than are the protests. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Are hedge fund managers to be held to some arbitrary standard of patriotism, because they live in a country that allowed them to be rich, or is it just athletes that don’t really deserve what they are “being given”? I think “POS” is a defining descriptor in his sentence. Some athletes are “POS” in his eyes and some aren’t, and that makes the difference. > [@](#): > > And when you own your very own professional sports team, then you can make that decree, until then, telling other people how they are free to express themselves is against the principles that the flag that you are so concerned about represents. Actually, the players have a union, and owners can’t decree stuff like that unilaterally. * * * > [@drewder](#): > > Let’s be honest here, the fact that they’re protesting doesn’t mean they’re not being disrespectful, they are doing what they’re doing IN ORDER to be disrespectful of the flag and of the country in protest of perceived wrongs. > > Most of those who are objecting are doing so because they feel disrespecting the flag and the country this way is offensive and that the symbols of our country should be left out of partisan politics. > > The fact that so many on the left appear to appear to be approving of disrespecting our national symbols is in large part why those on the left are looked upon as hating America. Is protesting police brutality “partisan politics”? Really? Or is it just that being black means one is a Democrat, and Democrats are offensive, and a black man’s opinions are therefore “partisan” & “offensive”? > [@drewder](#): > > That is the nature of the protest, they are being disrespectful because they believe that a country that shoots black people for being black is unworthy of their respect so they instead show their disrespect. Not saying I agree with them but it’s a total nonstarter to say they’re not being disrespectful. Read what you posted again. It sure looks like you said that you think that “a country that shoots black people for being black” is \*worthy \*of our respect, or at least worthy of “respect” from black football players. Why? * * * > [@Magiver](#): > > The reason the right is looked upon this way is because the left makes it their mission in life to demonize their opposition in order to retain voters. I was raised in the religious right. I was so twisted around by Jack Chick comics that \*National Review \*seemed moderate and cosmopolitan when I was a young adult. “Demonizing the opposition in order to retain voters” was what I was submerged in well into my twenties. It’s what keeps the crooks in the GOP around, even when their own voters know they’re crooks; the Democrats are despised that much. There are entire states where the Democrats can hardly win jack. But hey, maybe that’s just my peculiar sense of things! Oh, wait, no, there are now Republicans _in Congress_ who refuse to work with Democrats on anything. I don’t think the NFL players taking to their knees are demonizing the GOP. I could be wrong. It thought this was about police brutality. What’s partisan about that? Me, I’ll “demonize” the GOP because I’m someone who escaped their cult. I think many of us who “demonize” Republicans do so because we have realized that there is little use trying to compromise with such people who have so completely demonized us. What we can do is pull as hard to the left as they pull to the right, and hope the center somehow holds. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/148 "2017-10-02T13:59:25Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > A) This land was built on protest. Peacefully protesting the flag is honoring the system it stands for. But more importantly > B) Perhaps he thought there is something going on in this land the he loves that is even more disrespectful and offensive… This is a revolution, dammit! We’re going to have to offend _some_body! – John Adams, _1776_ ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/149 "2017-10-02T22:56:13Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > On one side we have people who want to bring to light the issue of killing of minorities by the police. On the other we have people who want to turn it into a discussion about etiquette. It takes a lot of white privilege to make those two equivalent. Well said. And if you think this about more than etiquette, how about this? > [@Broomstick](#): > > A nation where a piece of cloth is deemed more deserving of respect than the people inhabiting that country is not a nation worthy of respect. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/150 "2017-10-03T02:22:57Z")
If it wasn’t meant to be offensive would it even be a protest? Nobody is out protesting people who take a knee to pray. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/151 "2017-10-03T09:41:03Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > If it wasn’t meant to be offensive would it even be a protest? Nobody is out protesting people who take a knee to pray. If I decide to picket a business for discriminating against blacks, who I am being intentionally offensive towards? Racists? And your last point underscores why the hatred for the players doesn’t make any sense. They are simply kneeling, an act that is the height of respectful 99.9% of the time. People are choosing to interpret the act of kneeling during the NA as an offensive one, even though the players have not expressed an intention to offend. Sounds like a buncha butthurt to me. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435/152 "2017-10-06T01:41:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If I decide to picket a business for discriminating against blacks, who I am being intentionally offensive towards? Racists? > > And your last point underscores why the hatred for the players doesn’t make any sense. They are simply kneeling, an act that is the height of respectful 99.9% of the time. People are choosing to interpret the act of kneeling during the NA as an offensive one, even though the players have not expressed an intention to offend. Sounds like a buncha butthurt to me. Yes your actions are showing disrespect towards the business and towards racism in general, did you think you were trying to show them respect? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-offensive-to-kneel-during-the-anthem/797435.md?page=7)