# Why is it so hard to get student loans? :šŸ˜¢: **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916 "2005-09-28T20:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/1 "2005-09-28T20:57:44Z")
Iā€™m not really crying, but I am frustrated. Apparently, everyone I talk to wants me to either have a cosigner (parents wonā€™t do it) or mail them copies of my last two pay stubs and my W-2ā€™s. (which wouldnā€™t help, as my last two paychecks had a total of about 20 hours on them). Iā€™m looking for a private student loan (Stafford loanā€™s already maxed out, and I canā€™t get Pell grants), for which they donā€™t want such things. I donā€™t think that Iā€™m going to find it, though. Any suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/2 "2005-09-28T21:53:21Z")
Are you already enrolled? Have you taken previous classes at this school? If you answered no to the last two questions, I have some painful advice. Try applying to a school thatā€™s well below the quality of your safety. They may give you an attractive scholarship offer just to let you help them raise their standards. I was able to get a full scholarship using my 2.6 high-school GPA and 1300 SAT at a medium-bad state university. Aside from that, my sympathies. Getting a student loan is a pain the neck, and most students canā€™t qualify for an adequate one on their own merits. Good luck! A side note that you probably already knew: student loans are like money owed to the IRS. Student loan originators have enforcement and collection powers outstripping any creditors outside of the worlds of child support and taxes. If you get behind, they can take a house or garnish wages even in states where state law prohibits garnishments or home seizures. Itā€™s actually harder to discharge student loans in bankruptcy than it is to discharge old back taxes. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/3 "2005-09-28T22:51:30Z")
> [@Mr. Slant](#): > > A side note that you probably already knew: student loans are like money owed to the IRS. Student loan originators have enforcement and collection powers outstripping any creditors outside of the worlds of child support and taxes. > If you get behind, they can take a house or garnish wages even in states where state law prohibits garnishments or home seizures. Itā€™s actually harder to discharge student loans in bankruptcy than it is to discharge old back taxes. But unlike almost any other lenders, Federal Student Loan originators will _bend over backwards_ to work with you - delaying payments, reducing them, working out alternative payback plans, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/4 "2005-09-28T23:10:16Z")
> [@chaoticbear](#): > > Apparently, everyone I talk to wants me to either have a cosigner (parents wonā€™t do it) or mail them copies of my last two pay stubs and my W-2ā€™s. (which wouldnā€™t help, as my last two paychecks had a total of about 20 hours on them). I donā€™t understand. If the requirement is simply to furnish two recent paystubs, why does it matter if theyā€™re not for full work weeks? Why not just send them the paystubs you have? Or did the lenders explicitly say that the paystubs had to be for full-time employment? ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/5 "2005-09-29T00:15:32Z")
Well, Iā€™m already enrolled - Iā€™m a junior. Yes, Iā€™ve taken classes previously. Why do I not just send them my last 2 paystubs? 2 reasons. 1. I feel that it would hurt my chances of getting money. 2. Because those are at home, and I, well, donā€™t necessarily want to keep my loan a secret from my parents, but I donā€™t necessarily want to go parading it around. Itā€™s not an issue of ā€œWeā€™re sending you all this moneyā€¦ where are you spending it?!ā€, because theyā€™re not sending me money. Itā€™s that Iā€™m having to work much harder this semester than I had previously foreseen, and I guess I donā€™t want them to worry about me? Or something? Or maybe Iā€™m ashamed of taking out a private loan when I already have a Stafford? ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/6 "2005-09-29T00:26:22Z")
> [@chaoticbear](#): > > 1. Because those are at home, and I, well, donā€™t necessarily want to keep my loan a secret from my parents, but I donā€™t necessarily want to go parading it around. How is getting a hold of your pay stubs "parading it aroundā€™? Hey, this is a great opportunity to take a stand and help your parents realize that youā€™re an independent person making decisions for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/7 "2005-09-29T00:33:10Z")
IIRC, whether your parents agree to assist you financially with your collegiate education or not, TPTB in the student loan world will still consider their ability to assist you (instead of their desire) in determining your eligibility for such a loan. There is also the issue of making a false statement in regards to applying for such a loan. If you are, in fact, earning money and you donā€™t declare that on your application, you may be setting yourself up for some rather unfun results. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/8 "2005-09-29T01:31:41Z")
> [@Long Time First Time](#): > > How is getting a hold of your pay stubs "parading it aroundā€™? > Hey, this is a great opportunity to take a stand and help your parents realize that youā€™re an independent person making decisions for yourself. Because if I go home to get them, questions will be asked about why I would ever need them. > [@Monty](#): > > IIRC, whether your parents agree to assist you financially with your collegiate education or not, TPTB in the student loan world will still consider their ability to assist you (instead of their desire) in determining your eligibility for such a loan. > > There is also the issue of making a false statement in regards to applying for such a loan. If you are, in fact, earning money and you donā€™t declare that on your application, you may be setting yourself up for some rather unfun results. Yes, I know. However, I believe that my parentsā€™ income only applies if weā€™re talking about federal loans (which weā€™re not), or if they were to cosign with me on them (which they wonā€™t.) On my FAFSA, the form that determines my eligibility for such things, I have my full income reported. Even if I didnā€™t, my parents still make enough money to where I couldnā€™t get any federal aid. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/9 "2005-09-29T05:14:17Z")
> [@chaoticbear](#): > > Because if I go home to get them, questions will be asked about why I would ever need them. Is there some reason besides paying for school that you need them? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/10 "2005-09-29T12:56:22Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > But unlike almost any other lenders, Federal Student Loan originators will _bend over backwards_ to work with you - delaying payments, reducing them, working out alternative payback plans, etc. Completely true. I should have mentioned that. What I was trying to get across is you CANā€™T bankrupt out of them unless you basically wind up permanently and completely disabled. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/11 "2005-09-29T13:04:57Z")
> [@chaoticbear](#): > > SNIP > > Why do I not just send them my last 2 paystubs? 2 reasons. > > 1. I feel that it would hurt my chances of getting money. > SNIP **chaoticbear** , lying on or omitting relevant information from a loan application is a serious offense. A businessman in Canton, Ohio got a 10 year sentence in federal prison a couple of years back for failing to mention an outstanding tax debt he had during his application for a business loan. FAFSA documentation is periodically audited, and you are setting yourself up for trouble. It might not be 10 years, it might not even be active time in prison, but it would be a good way for a young man to wind up with something on his record heā€™d have to disclose to future employers for the rest of his life. \Obey the law. Be good. Stay in school. Donā€™t use drugs. \ ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/12 "2005-09-29T13:12:31Z")
> [@chaoticbear](#): > > Why do I not just send them my last 2 paystubs? 2 reasons. > > 1. I feel that it would hurt my chances of getting money. > 2. Because those are at home, and I, well, donā€™t necessarily want to keep my loan a secret from my parents, but I donā€™t necessarily want to go parading it around. Itā€™s not an issue of ā€œWeā€™re sending you all this moneyā€¦ where are you spending it?!ā€, because theyā€™re not sending me money. Itā€™s that Iā€™m having to work much harder this semester than I had previously foreseen, and I guess I donā€™t want them to worry about me? Or something? Or maybe Iā€™m ashamed of taking out a private loan when I already have a Stafford? These are soooo not things the student loan people will get heartfelt and mushy about. As in, if you want to be a grownup about this you need to be ready to provide the kind of records a grownup would readily have available. Iā€™ve been down the road of financial aid and uncooperative parents, and it means you really need to step up and take your own initiative if you want to make it work. That said, your employer should be able to provide you duplicate pay stubs, even duplicate W2s. They may charge you a processing fee for this, since itā€™s not their fault you ā€œmisplacedā€ them, but things do happen and almost any employer would be able to duplicate these records. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/13 "2005-09-29T13:39:16Z")
I canā€™t resist giving a literal GQ answer to the thread title. A degree (or, in the health area, surgery) is an investment. Rather like an investment in a machine, youā€™d want to borrow to finance an investment if the discounted flow of income generated by the investment exceeds the costs. What makes investments in human capital difficult is that - unlike a loan for a factory or other tangible asset - the lender cannot repossess the asset in the event of default. This lack of collateral means that relative to other sorts of investments the cost of financing would be (inefficiently) higher in a free market. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-student-loans-cry/323916/14 "2005-09-29T15:10:59Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Is there some reason besides paying for school that you need them? Not anything illicit or anything, but my school is technically paid for for the semester. Itā€™s going to be a small loan - 1 or 1.5k because I just canā€™t fit in working as much as I want into my schedule, and I still have bills to pay. Looks like the thing to do is to suck it up, go home, and dig out my last two check stubs. (Side note: Why does everyone think that Iā€™m trying to avoid reporting some income or tax?)