# why is it that African Americans never seem to be charged with hate crimes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002 "2012-04-26T12:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/61 "2012-04-27T22:40:16Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > I can be certain of the outcome, yes indeed. I lived and worked in the middle of some [race riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001), back in the day. Neither the local nor the national media had any problem noting the racial component - that the rioters were primarily black, and the targets of their animus were primarily white. Your hypothetical is complete and utter fantasy. I’m beginning to question your motives for clinging to it so fiercely. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/62 "2012-04-27T22:46:07Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Considering the fact that blacks have not been “en-masse chasing down” whites, for the past 6 months, your comment makes little sense. > > Beyond that, considering the way the media covered the killing of Yankel Rosenbaum during the Crown Heights riots as well as the beating of Reginald Denny, your suggestion that the media ignores black on white crime is demonstrably false. Not only are you wrong on both counts, you’re second point is irrelevant. The context is today’s media, not a 20 year old cherry picked event. Here’s a guy who’s been documenting flash mob events into a list. [http://violentflashmobs.com/](http://violentflashmobs.com/) _(note that he assembled that monster list from local outlets’ coverage not the big network/mainstream media.)_ Both my assertions were correct. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/63 "2012-04-27T22:52:53Z")
> [@DukemNukem](#): > > Please leave your juvenile insults elsewhere. They have no place in a debate. It was a joke. Calm down. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/64 "2012-04-27T23:57:18Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > I can also state with certainty if packs of whites (10 to 40 of them) were bum rushing businesses, attacking blacks in parks-malls-fairgrounds-bike paths-etc screaming “get that black mother f—r!” the mainstream news would 1) not have stalled on most of the incidents , 2) go out of their way to call them “flash mobs” or some other ridiculous generic term designed to remove the race component, 3) and absolutely would have ginned up as much imagery of the KKK as possible. > > Of course Jessie, Al, Obama, and the usual gaggle would be on every channel every day too. First, if the news isn’t covering these incidents, how do you know about them? Just going down the list of things on the site you linked to has links to mostly mainstream media outlets reporting the events. If you were assuming it should be national news, I think you are overestimating the importance, and the similarities of these events. Second, many of those links don’t even mention the race or ethnicity of the perpetrators, so I don’t know whether you can fairly assume they are Black. This [article](http://petaluma.patch.com/articles/petaluma-brother-and-sister-arrested-for-assault-robbert) from your link lists the names of the perpetrators in one incident as, Justin Casarotti, 27 and Alyssa Casarotti, 23, Brian Butler, 23, and Whitney Milestone, 25, Jared Cavanaugh, 25, and Jordan Pool, 23. Can’t find pictures of them, but I would be SHOCKED if all of them were Black. In fact, most of the articles linked to don’t mention a racial motivation for the attack, or whether there assailants were Black and/or the victims White. You seem to be the one injected a racial component. Third, they were called flash mobs, not as a euphemism, but because they initially started as random groups of kids enlisted via cell phones and social media to meet at a given time and place, like a regular flash mob. there weren’t roving bands of angry Black people, there were groups they met and dispersed after committing a crime (usually theft). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/65 "2012-04-28T00:00:39Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Not only are you wrong on both counts, you’re second point is irrelevant. The context is today’s media, not a 20 year old cherry picked event. > > Here’s a guy who’s been documenting flash mob events into a list. [http://violentflashmobs.com/](http://violentflashmobs.com/) > _(note that he assembled that monster list from local outlets’ coverage not the big network/mainstream media.)_ > > Both my assertions were correct. No, as Black Rabbit pointed out you’re wrong. Now I’m sorry that you’re so terrified of black people that you apparently blacks mobs regularly attack and beat up whites, but that’s simply racist bullshit regardless of what some idiotic website you linked to says. If you want people to take you seriously and not see you as a crank, I recommend using better sources. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/66 "2012-04-28T00:37:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …This is the same principle that explains why the disappearance of a white child is major news and the disappearance of a black child gets put on a milk carton… The black kids get the milk cartons? I didn’t know. What about the chocolate milk cartons? It makes sense to put the black kids on the white milk cartons and the white kids on the chocolate milk cartons. More contrasty. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/67 "2012-04-28T00:59:20Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No, as Black Rabbit pointed out you’re wrong. > > Now I’m sorry that you’re so terrified of black people that you apparently blacks mobs regularly attack and beat up whites, but that’s simply racist bullshit regardless of what some idiotic website you linked to says. > > If you want people to take you seriously and not see you as a crank, I recommend using better sources. It’s an idiot website because he actually documents stories from local outlets - I would suspect that a Doper would appreciate such diligence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/68 "2012-04-28T03:53:56Z")
One example or two or three pulled out of yer ass does not constitute a comprehensive non-biased data set. Not in 2008, 2010 or 2012. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/69 "2012-04-28T04:45:22Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > One example or two or three pulled out of yer ass does not constitute a comprehensive non-biased data set. Not in 2008, 2010 or 2012. No amount of reporting or data is good enough unless it conforms to per-conceived prejudices - especially at the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/70 "2012-04-28T05:11:51Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > No amount of reporting or data is good enough unless it conforms to per-conceived prejudices - especially at the SDMB. If you’re going to accuse us of being prejudiced please spell “preconceived” properly. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/71 "2012-04-28T05:12:39Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > No amount of reporting or data is good enough unless it conforms to per-conceived prejudices - especially at the SDMB. It’s more you linked to an anonymous blog that includes the disclaimer “I’m not a professional criminologist” and **Black Rabbit** linked to the FBI crime statistic. So it’s an unknown amateur versus the Federal Bureau of Investigation on who keeps better records of crimes in the US. You know, the people who _are_ professionals at that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/72 "2012-04-28T05:15:41Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > No amount of reporting or data is good enough unless it conforms to per-conceived prejudices - especially at the SDMB. But your source doesn’t specify racially motivated attacks, just flash mob attacks. The value of your source to your argument is nil. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/73 "2012-04-28T05:30:44Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > It’s more you linked to an anonymous blog that includes the disclaimer “I’m not a professional criminologist” and **Black Rabbit** linked to the FBI crime statistic. > So it’s an unknown amateur versus the Federal Bureau of Investigation on who keeps better records of crimes in the US. You know, the people who _are_ professionals at that sort of thing. The local listings are provided. Orlando, Chicago, DC, etc. on and on and on… ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/74 "2012-04-28T05:32:55Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > It’s more you linked to an anonymous blog that includes the disclaimer “I’m not a professional criminologist” and **Black Rabbit** linked to the FBI crime statistic. > So it’s an unknown amateur versus the Federal Bureau of Investigation on who keeps better records of crimes in the US. You know, the people who _are_ professionals at that sort of thing. The links are all local media reports. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/75 "2012-04-28T05:49:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > But your source doesn’t specify racially motivated attacks, just flash mob attacks. The value of your source to your argument is nil. Do you want pictures? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/76 "2012-04-28T06:15:38Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Do you want pictures? If you think you wish to support your view, then either pictures or a description would be necessary. I read the first dozen, or so, and saw no particular reason to believe that they were all black-on-white attacks. The one story that did include pictures, (one of the party store robberies), showed kids of more than one race participating with no indication that the owner or manager was white. What you appear to have actually demonstrated is that we currently have a phenomenon of kids and twenty-somethings in gangs behaving badly, regardless of the race of the victims or perpetrators. Unless you have separate evidence that it was always black-on-white crime, that would actually make it less news-worthy on the national level. Unlike a couple of other posters, I would not dismiss your link out of hand, but thus far it is simply a collection of anecdotes with no provenence regarding the behavior of kids, providing no legitimate conclusions beyond an indication of the sort of stories that that particular blogger chooses to collect. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/77 "2012-04-28T07:31:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you think you wish to support your view, then either pictures or a description would be necessary. I read the first dozen, or so, and saw no particular reason to believe that they were all black-on-white attacks. The one story that did include pictures, (one of the party store robberies), showed kids of more than one race participating with no indication that the owner or manager was white. > > What you appear to have actually demonstrated is that we currently have a phenomenon of kids and twenty-somethings in gangs behaving badly, regardless of the race of the victims or perpetrators. Unless you have separate evidence that it was always black-on-white crime, that would actually make it less news-worthy on the national level. > > Unlike a couple of other posters, I would not dismiss your link out of hand, but thus far it is simply a collection of anecdotes with no provenence regarding the behavior of kids, providing no legitimate conclusions beyond an indication of the sort of stories that that particular blogger chooses to collect. A phenomenon? Like the Trayvon sensation? The blogger’s list I provided you is all local media listings. He deserves a hat tip for all the work. You _are_ right about age being a factor. But why? It shouldn’t be one though, all these years of healing and diversity training (add whatever political sinkhole you will) we should not see a problem from the younger crowd.. _(another topic I suppose)._ ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/78 "2012-04-28T07:47:31Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > A phenomenon? Like the Trayvon sensation? > > The blogger’s list I provided you is all local media listings. He deserves a hat tip for all the work. > > You _are_ right about age being a factor. But why? It shouldn’t be one though, all these years of healing and diversity training (add whatever political sinkhole you will) we should not see a problem from the younger crowd.. _(another topic I suppose)._ The blogger’s list does nothing to support your contention that all the attackers were black and all the victims are white nor is there any evidence that there was a racial motivation behind the attack. Anyway, what makes you think all the young people participating in the flash mobs were black and all the victims were white? Is it that you think only blacks would behave like that? ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/79 "2012-04-28T09:02:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The blogger’s list does nothing to support your contention that all the attackers were black and all the victims are white nor is there any evidence that there was a racial motivation behind the attack. > > Anyway, what makes you think all the young people participating in the flash mobs were black and all the victims were white? > > Is it that you think only blacks would behave like that? 1. no one said “all”. 2. even if just one was racially motivated it would have made the news if it the colors were reversed - current news and omission of news supports this and is not a hypothesis, theory, or prediction. It’s current fact. 3. flash mobs are black by majority. My WAG is 90% minimum. (98% is probably the correct number) Anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/80 "2012-04-28T09:24:03Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > No amount of reporting or data is good enough unless it conforms to per-conceived prejudices - especially at the SDMB. Yes, I agree that’s definitely what were seeing here. But you’ve taken a big first step by admitting it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002.md?page=5)