# why is it that African Americans never seem to be charged with hate crimes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002 "2012-04-26T12:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/101 "2012-05-02T04:13:05Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > You poor persecuted kid. reported. This isnt the pit. Instead of insulting me, you could try adding something to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/102 "2012-05-02T04:17:32Z")
I suppose I could, if you’d post something worth responding to in a way I haven’t already. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/103 "2012-05-02T04:20:17Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I don’t, but since I suspect it’s a scenario you’re itching to try out, maybe you can claim it’s in the name of science. Knock it off. This is appropriate for the Pit, but not GD. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/104 "2012-05-02T04:23:58Z")
WTF are you even continuing this debate OP. It has been repeatedly shown that your perception, or perhaps your memory is incorrect, and that blacks are charged with hate crime, as you seemed not to believe. Now you’ve moved the goal posts to some ague complaint about the “media” not giving any (or adequate) coverage to black-on-white violence motivated by race. You have not resented any genuine evidence of this claim. I would claim with at least as much validity that the killing or kidnapping of black children does not get nearly as much media attention as the same thing happening to young white girls. I don’t have any evidence for my claim either. So just what are you so up in arms about? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/105 "2012-05-02T04:27:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > So just what are you so up in arms about? There’s something happening somewhere, and it’s not fair. Not fair at all! I’m outraged! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/106 "2012-05-02T04:41:40Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Many of them are black on white - with the attackers even shouting racist remarks . How many does it take to be newsworthy, a hundred, a thousand? > We can see it only takes one instance of the reverse (and with little to no evidence to support it) to be newsworthy. Your last sentence is balderdash. White-on-black violence occurs all the time without making the national news. We have already seen that most of your claims are merely your inferences of what might have happened. We have already seen that even when whites are the perpetrators, it does not routinely make the national news. Your point is rather pointless and you have failed to substantiate it. I guess you are having a good time, but as long as you cherry-pick your “evidence,” you simply fail to persuade. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/107 "2012-05-02T04:56:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Knock it off. This is appropriate for the Pit, but not GD. Apologies. I’ll work on my “weaselly.” ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/108 "2012-05-02T08:04:31Z")
Just FYI, a (relatively) new story of a black-on-white hate crime: Delmon Young – an African American major league baseball player – has been arraigned on hate crime charges, [as reported by (among others) ESPN.com](http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7862121/detroit-tigers-delmon-young-faces-hate-crime-charge-new-york). ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/109 "2012-05-02T08:40:06Z")
Here is an interesting [link](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1cb_1304689062) about Reginald Denny. Remember him from the LA riots in 1992? Does that count as “today’s media”. Anyway it also talks about Reginald Denny and Fidel Lopez. If you remember Denny, surely you remember Lopez. After all he pulled up to the same intersection and was attacked by the same guys and got the same treatment. I’ve personally never heard of him till I found that link. (btw, I’m not really sure about that website, but the OP might enjoy it.) But you probably don’t remember him. Remember Katrina? You know, the hurricane, New Orleans and the “rape gangs in the Super dome” that never existed? How black people taking stuff was looting and white people “found” stuff? To me this thread reminds me of the wave in politics right now that I call “Well they do it too!” The attempt to try and downplay some fault of your own by putting it on the others. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/110 "2012-05-03T04:41:21Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Here is an interesting [link](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1cb_1304689062) about Reginald Denny. Remember him from the LA riots in 1992? Does that count as “today’s media”. Anyway it also talks about Reginald Denny and Fidel Lopez. If you remember Denny, surely you remember Lopez. After all he pulled up to the same intersection and was attacked by the same guys and got the same treatment. I’ve personally never heard of him till I found that link. (btw, I’m not really sure about that website, but the OP might enjoy it.) > > But you probably don’t remember him. > Remember Katrina? You know, the hurricane, New Orleans and the “rape gangs in the Super dome” that never existed? How black people taking stuff was looting and white people “found” stuff? > > To me this thread reminds me of the wave in politics right now that I call “Well they do it too!” > > The attempt to try and downplay some fault of your own by putting it on the others. I already mentioned Reginald Denny as well as the Crown Heights riot and he sputtered about how those were “historical accounts” and irrelevant because they didn’t happen recently. You’re right I should have mentioned Katrina, but I suspect he’d have insisted it didn’t count because it was six years ago. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/111 "2012-05-05T14:11:33Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > First, if the news isn’t covering these incidents, how do you know about them? I’ve got to hand it to most leftish arguers… when a canned response is shown not to make any sense it usually is abandoned. Why this one is still around puzzles me. How does the fact that one person read or heard something somewhere have anything to do with whether or not the main newsdrivers are reporting something adequately for all to see or hear?? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/112 "2012-05-05T15:11:27Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Maybe, but I think when the media reports on hate crimes you need to consider the underlying logic of hate crime legislation. That being that the crime is one that extends beyond just the individual being hurt. It is often a means of intimidating and terrorizing a larger group or people. It’s a crime against the community. As unacceptable as it is when a minority attacks a member of the majority, the reality is it doesn’t usually have the same chilling effect as it does when the reverse happens. This is generally true for a few reasons: > > 1. There is generally not a long, recent history of discrimination and systemic prejudice against the majority. There is no history of Hispanics, for example, attacking White people, and making laws to criminalize being White. > > 2. Members of the majority generally don’t have to live, work with, or work for members of the minority. Most Black people, for geographic and socioeconomic reasons, don’t have the luxury to avoid White people if they want to. If for some reason, Blacks were in fear of their lives as a result of intimidation coming from a local group of White people, they generally don’t have a choice to not interact with Whites without great hardship. > > 3. For numerical reasons, minority violence towards the majority, in aggregate, doesn’t represent a clear and present danger to the majority’s existence or way of life. White people were never rounded up and put in camps, or targeted for wholesale extermination. > > 4. Media hesitance to report on minority crimes also comes from the common tendency of the viewers to treat minority crimes as irrational; as maniacal and hysterical actions that are the result of one’s race and background. Media members are generally responsible enough to not fan these flames. They know harping on a Black guy robbing an old lady will have negative consequences for all Black guys in that area, whereas a White guy doing the same will not have that effect. Just as Timothy McVeigh, and a plethora of White school shooters don’t make people fear White kids, or separatists in the same way many now fear Arabs and Muslims because of terrorism here. they recognize they have the ability to shine a light on things, and that they need to use that spotlight in a responsible way. > > When the media reports these things, they usually implicitly consider these things. Regardless of how you feel about the propriety of it, when most Black parents heard about Trayvon Martin, they immediately feared for their own children. It affects them on a personal level regardless of how likely it is something might happen. Even if hate didn’t inspire George Zimmerman, his actions put the fear of God into any Black parent with teenagers. The same cannot (generally) be said for Whites. When you read about a Black guy beating a White guy several states away from where you are, are you fearful? > > Fair or not, when minorities see other minorities as victims of hate crimes, it feels more like a personal attack. Race and ethnicity, as a minority, are inextricably tied to identity in America. Most people in the majority don’t have those same ties. I know few White people who have strong opinions on being White, and all that that entails. For most of them, it’s just never been as issue. Most minorities I know cannot say the same. That alone makes things like Trayvon Martin’s shooting more newsworthy as the number of interested parties is often far greater, and they are impacted on a far deeper and personal level. It may not be fair to the White guy who is a victim of a hate crime, but it’s not some PC liberal agenda to pretend minorities are better than others. I just saw this thread for the first time and I had to remark on this post. Amidst all of the rhetoric, it’s a gem. It amazes me the way some people have tried to twist your very clear words into something nearly the opposite of what you’re saying. One poster in particular has a very appropriate name. Now someone will come along and claim that I’m a “soft racist” or some such nonsense for posting this. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/113 "2012-05-08T14:22:58Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I just saw this thread for the first time and I had to remark on this post. Amidst all of the rhetoric, it’s a gem. It amazes me the way some people have tried to twist your very clear words into something nearly the opposite of what you’re saying. One poster in particular has a very appropriate name. > > Now someone will come along and claim that I’m a “soft racist” or some such nonsense for posting this. Referencing the post to which you are commenting, the statement " the underlying logic of hate crime legislation" is made in the very beginning. Is it OK to point out that there may be some other very logical underlying motives ? By that I mean that the legislation is also a good way for a certain party to convince a certain voting bloc that they are their only hope and that the other party is out to get them? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/114 "2012-05-08T15:23:47Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I just saw this thread for the first time and I had to remark on this post. Amidst all of the rhetoric, it’s a gem. It amazes me the way some people have tried to twist your very clear words into something nearly the opposite of what you’re saying. One poster in particular has a very appropriate name. > > Now someone will come along and claim that I’m a “soft racist” or some such nonsense for posting this. Thank you very much for this. I am glad someone appreciated what I was trying to say. > [@What\_the](#): > > Is it OK to point out that there may be some other very logical underlying motives ? By that I mean that the legislation is also a good way for a certain party to convince a certain voting bloc that they are their only hope and that the other party is out to get them? Why don’t you say what you want to say. If you want to argue that the Democratic party is trying to scare minorities into voting for them, I don’t think there is much evidence for, or need to do that. The reality is minority allegiance to social liberalism, and by extension, the Democratic party, began long before hate crime legislation existed, and will likely continue long after. The reality is that while the GOP itself may not be racist, racists typically prefer the GOP. That alone will convince most minorities to favor the Dems if only for the reason that they know they will not be aligned with individuals who often go out of their way to highlight their immutable, and/or inconsequential religious, cultural, ethnic, sexual, gender, and racial differences as a liability. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/115 "2012-05-08T16:05:27Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Here’s yet another story of black mobs beating up on a white couple. It’s covered in local outlets, however not at the national level with cbs, abc, msnbc, nor has Jessie, Al, or Barry dashed to the tv cameras.: > > Wave after wave of young men surged forward to take turns punching and kicking their victim: > [http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2012/05/beating-church-and-brambleton](http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2012/05/beating-church-and-brambleton) [Just an update on this story](http://www.wvec.com/my-city/norfolk/Norfolk-police-search-for-group-that-attacked-newspaper-reporters-149724875.html). The police have arrested one 16 year old for assault. He threw a rock at a car and then landed a couple punches. Injuries were minor. Certainly no waves of men surging forward to take turns. Police were on the scene within one minute of receiving the dispatch; paramedics arrived at the same time and had examined the injured and released them within 10 minutes of the initial call. Racial motivation has not been ruled out but neither is it part of the charges at this time. The police haven’t concluded their investigation yet, but the editorial linked by **IntelliQ** does not resemble any of their findings so far. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/116 "2012-05-09T14:22:01Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Why don’t you say what you want to say. If you want to argue that the Democratic party is trying to scare minorities into voting for them, I don’t think there is much evidence for, or need to do that. The reality is minority allegiance to social liberalism, and by extension, the Democratic party, began long before hate crime legislation existed, and will likely continue long after. The reality is that while the GOP itself may not be racist, racists typically prefer the GOP. That alone will convince most minorities to favor the Dems if only for the reason that they know they will not be aligned with individuals who often go out of their way to highlight their immutable, and/or inconsequential religious, cultural, ethnic, sexual, gender, and racial differences as a liability. I did… and you understood me it seems. I should have elaborated that its not just about convincing minorities to keep voting Democrat but also a good way to get out the vote. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/117 "2012-05-09T15:18:49Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I did… and you understood me it seems. I should have elaborated that its not just about convincing minorities to keep voting Democrat but also a good way to get out the vote. Yes, I understood your implication even though you were needlessly pussyfooting around the topic. Do you have ANY evidence or rationale for your assertion. ANY reason to think such a thing would actually work? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/118 "2012-05-10T12:59:48Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Yes, I understood your implication even though you were needlessly pussyfooting around the topic. Do you have ANY evidence or rationale for your assertion. ANY reason to think such a thing would actually work? Playing the race card doesn’t work? C’mon now. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/119 "2012-05-10T14:11:15Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > [Just an update on this story](http://www.wvec.com/my-city/norfolk/Norfolk-police-search-for-group-that-attacked-newspaper-reporters-149724875.html). The police have arrested one 16 year old for assault. He threw a rock at a car and then landed a couple punches. Injuries were minor. Certainly no waves of men surging forward to take turns. Police were on the scene within one minute of receiving the dispatch; paramedics arrived at the same time and had examined the injured and released them within 10 minutes of the initial call. > > Racial motivation has not been ruled out but neither is it part of the charges at this time. The police haven’t concluded their investigation yet, but the editorial linked by **IntelliQ** does not resemble any of their findings so far. Really? [Update here.](http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2012/05/beating-church-and-brambleton) “The responding officer coded the incident as a simple assault, despite their assertions that at least 30 people had participated in the attack.” Im not aware of the national mainstream picking up on it still. It’s just one example, there’s tons out there to choose from. Also, last Saturday a couple was severely beaten in NJ outside the Prudential Center. Even though the “roving band of teens” who committed the violence seem to still be at large, the reports go out of their way to omit any reference to descriptions of the assailants. That’s pretty screwed up in itself, shouldn’t citizens have a right to get alerted for their own safety? Im not sure how much the “investigative process” is allowed to jeopardize the safety of it’s citizens - so that one’s still developing. No national media seems interested even though there’s a trend that should throw up red flags all over the place. I’ll leave it to others to guess why no details of the perpetrators arent being shared with the public. Just as an aside, I watched Bishop Jackson on TV last night (Black Repub Virginia candidate for US senate also from Harvard, US Marine, and Baptist Minister) who’s been involved with youth groups and interventions, and just a really busy guy in the communities. He stated last night that he’s been in the trenches for years trying to educate black youths and pump up their self esteem because of the widespread anti-white attitudes they’ve latched on to because of Sharpton, Jessie, et al, and the way in which the media shines a spotlight on some crimes and not others. He was respectful but very sad at how news is handled. He doesnt have an axe to grind, nor is he bombastic or trying to ramp up division. He said all crime should be treated equally, and that the one-sided race hype is counterproductive. I like this guy, it’s too bad it wasnt him filling the podiums during TrayvonTV time instead of Al and Jessie. So it’s clear that certain people and some media have had a negative impact on youths, and do a disservice in providing people with information without tainting it with their politically correct (or straight up racist) views. In the end, race is playing a factor in national mainstream coverage, the evidence is there before you take it or leave it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002/120 "2012-05-10T14:24:43Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Really? [Update here.](http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2012/05/beating-church-and-brambleton) That’s not an update. It is the same blog to which you first linked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-african-americans-never-seem-to-be-charged-with-hate-crimes/620002.md?page=7)