# Why is it that even progressive men so often deny sexism/misogyny? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969 "2002-11-21T17:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969/61 "2002-12-05T21:27:03Z")
Women! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969/62 "2002-12-05T21:37:57Z")
I ate Thanksgiving at two different locations. At both, women did most of the cooking and cleaning, although I made probably the most complex dish at either household (an incredibly yummy cranberry,pear, and pecan-stuffed sweet potato dish). I didn’t help with cleanup at the first house because I was en route to the second house. I didn’t help with cleanup at the second house because I was too busy providing childcare for six kids, ages 9-13. I’m guessing the cleaners had nothing on me in the headache department afterwards. I have noticed that progressives aren’t monolithic, but I haven’t noticed that being especially true of feminists. I’ve heard feminists say classist things, and I’ve heard animal welfare advocates spew the most ignorant racism you can imagine. That doesn’t excuse progressives who ooze sexism, of course, but I also don’t think they’re in a special position. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969/63 "2002-12-05T23:20:39Z")
Well, our house was rather skewed at Thanksgiving, as the only family members and the host were female, and the only guests were male, and at our house, guests are not asked to help with cleanup. All family members and the host (my sister and I, and Mom, respectively) cooked and cleaned up, and one of two guests (both male) brought a dish to share (he didn’t cook it, but frankly, alhtough he’s a dear friend, I wouldn’t ahve wanted to eat anything he cooked). I don’t know how that helps anyone with the question, though. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969/64 "2002-12-06T00:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > **Sexism is so ingrained in our society that many otherwise sensitive and sensible women and men are blind to it.** Maybe, maybe not… but it would be interesting to prove that. I don’t think your example/experiment is going to help you much, though. > [@](#): > > **Just as an experiment, after Thanksgiving why don’t we post here the gender of the person or persons who 1) did most of the cooking and 2) did most of the cleanup.** I agree with **Sua** that this isn’t a particularly revealing example, because it makes several assumptions about roles of subservience and cooking that seem faulty, or at least outdated… appropriate to the 1950’s, perhaps, but not today. For example, in my house on Thanksgiving, my wife started the turkey (prepping it and putting it in the oven). We both cleaned the house before our guests arrived. I made all of the side dishes, and finished the turkey, while my wife welcomed out guests and chatted with them. I also did the majority of the cleanup afterwards. I was not considered “subservient” for doing more of the cooking… rather, I was roundly complimented on the dishes I had prepared. I certainly felt like I got a lot of praise, and I never once felt that I was in a subservient role. Quite the opposite; I was proud of what I had done. So tell me, does this example support your pre-supposition about sexism? I dare _you_ to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969/65 "2002-12-06T03:38:57Z")
For Thanksgiving I baked a 2.7 pound turkey breast, pressure-cooked a butternut squash and mashed it with a potato masher along with black pepper and butter, made a pone of cornbread & tore up 1/3 of it, mixed it with shredded white bread and turkey broth and onions and a few other spices and baked it as dressing, and steamed 3/4 pound of fresh green beans with sauteed shallots and almonds. She had to clean up the pots and pans and load the dishwasher. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969/66 "2002-12-06T03:55:12Z")
My wife did all of the cooking and most of the cleanup on Thanksgiving day. I offer this data point in the spirit of meaningless correlation. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969/67 "2002-12-06T04:04:24Z")
I can’t tell you who did the cooking and cleaning, since I didn’t go back to the kitchen of Lonestar where we had our meal. I can, however, guess that at least one of them was a Mexican, if that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969/68 "2002-12-06T18:07:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by super\_head \* > \*\*I can’t tell you who did the cooking and cleaning, since I didn’t go back to the kitchen of Lonestar where we had our meal. I can, however, guess that at least one of them was a Mexican, if that helps. \*\* :rolleyes: Why is it that even progressive feminists so often deny class inequalities? Daniel 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-even-progressive-men-so-often-deny-sexism-misogyny/137969.md?page=3)