# Why is it that only beef has a 'donenest' scale? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904 "2015-12-09T04:00:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/1 "2015-12-09T04:00:57Z")
You know, rare medium and well done with variants. No one ever asks how you’d like your chicken, pork or shrimp cooked. It’s either cooked of not. Is this a purely social convention or some aspect of beef itself? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/2 "2015-12-09T04:04:33Z")
Chicken and seafood carry a disease risk at anything other than fully cooked (sushi is a different kettle of fish). Pork used to carry trichinosis which I understand is not a risk in commercial pork. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/3 "2015-12-09T04:05:44Z")
It’s not just beef. You’ll get the question with other meats like lamb, with duck, and with some fishes. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/4 "2015-12-09T04:07:03Z")
Chicken and pork are generally considered to be unsafe unless fully cooked. You do get levels of cooked for things other than beef. Any red meat really. Also salmon, swordfish. Strong fish flesh generally. Sushi and carpaccio of course are not cooked at all. Shrimp may just be too hard to control cooking. Seafood in general has a “just cooked right” level that is not that far from raw - and difficult to get right without practice. Anything other than rare is really overdone already. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/5 "2015-12-09T04:18:13Z")
Since this is about food, let’s move it to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/6 "2015-12-09T04:32:00Z")
It’s not specific to beef. It’s specific to _steak_. You don’t get to choose doneness for any other beef dish. (Well, maybe hamburgers, at some places.) ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/7 "2015-12-09T04:42:31Z")
Salmon has varying degrees of “doneness.” As do eggs. ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/8 "2015-12-09T06:48:15Z")
Not really the same, but in my experience people also seem to disagree about the extent to which a frozen pizza should be cooked. I like my tombstone medium-rare, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![ThisSpaceForRent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisspaceforrent/32/345_2.png) [@ThisSpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisSpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/9 "2015-12-09T08:01:14Z")
I like my beef a true med rare and my pork a true Med…chicken well done except for breast… Pork has no modern issues. Trichinosis is not an issue in farm/free range commercially available pork. Fish… for me, medium please, except tuna and scallops Med Rare please. oysters…from raw to stewed. ymmv ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/10 "2015-12-09T08:14:46Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > It’s not specific to beef. It’s specific to _steak_. You don’t get to choose doneness for any other beef dish. (Well, maybe hamburgers, at some places.) Roasts such as prime rib are also cooked to particular levels of doneness. This is also true of leg of lamb and rack of lamb. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/11 "2015-12-09T13:45:22Z")
I always figured pork had a two-step scale - Sure Death and Done. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/12 "2015-12-09T14:11:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I always figured pork had a two-step scale - Sure Death and Done. Not any more: > **[USDA Lowers Pork Doneness Temp: Slightly Pink Is Okay](https://www.eater.com/2011/5/24/6678811/usda-lowers-pork-doneness-temp-slightly-pink-is-okay)** > > Pork happy chefs across the nation are rejoicing after the USDA announced it is lowering the recommended doneness temperature for pork to 145, which is the same temperature for beef, veal, and... In restaurants I am frequently asked a desired temperature for beef (steaks and roast beef, occasionally hamburgers), lamb, and certain fish (tuna and salmon). On occasion (but with more frequency) pork. Scallops almost always come just seared (unless in some other dish), I’ve never been asked if I want them cooked more thoroughly (which I wouldn’t anyway). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/13 "2015-12-09T14:16:58Z")
Pork never needed to be well done, but there’s a short temperature range where between the point where it’s still a little red but safe to eat, and well done. Lamb can be rare to well done. It’s not quite the same scale for fish but fish can be served anywhere from raw to well done. Commonly fish steaks are seared on the outside and barely cooked at all internally. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/14 "2015-12-09T14:51:43Z")
When I go to the butcher shop, there’s posters hanging up (from the American Pork Council or something similiar I assume) saying that 145F is the hip new “done” temperature for pork. I guess that they hope more people will purchase pork if they think there’s less chance of drying it out at disease-boiling high temperatures. “Oh, I don’t have to autoclave it? Well, maybe I’ll get some pork chops…” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/15 "2015-12-09T14:57:36Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Not any more: > > [USDA Lowers Pork Doneness Temp: Slightly Pink Is Okay - Eater](http://www.eater.com/2011/5/24/6678811/usda-lowers-pork-doneness-temp-slightly-pink-is-okay) > > In restaurants I am frequently asked a desired temperature for beef (steaks and roast beef, occasionally hamburgers), lamb, and certain fish (tuna and salmon). On occasion (but with more frequency) pork. Scallops almost always come just seared (unless in some other dish), I’ve never been asked if I want them cooked more thoroughly (which I wouldn’t anyway). That’s pretty much my experience, although it’s more like “usually” for hamburgers. Fast food places generally won’t, but most sit-down restaurants and pubs that have those thick style (1/3 lb & up) burgers will ask you for your desired doneness around here. (I actually can’t think of an exception for a pub burger. I always get “how would you like that cooked?”) I’ve also occasionally been asked for doneness on roast beef sandwiches, but I suppose that goes under the category of “roast beef.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/16 "2015-12-09T15:03:18Z")
Most sit-down places I’ve been to will ask “Pink or no pink?” for a burger. They don’t break it down like you would for a steak but they at least give the binary option. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/17 "2015-12-09T15:12:25Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Most sit-down places I’ve been to will ask “Pink or no pink?” for a burger. They don’t break it down like you would for a steak but they at least give the binary option. Interesting. I’ve never gotten that one except maybe for pork. For burgers, it’s always “how would you like that cooked?” for any of the places I’ve been to. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/18 "2015-12-09T16:48:53Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > When I go to the butcher shop, there’s posters hanging up (from the American Pork Council or something similiar I assume) saying that 145F is the hip new “done” temperature for pork. I guess that they hope more people will purchase pork if they think there’s less chance of drying it out at disease-boiling high temperatures. “Oh, I don’t have to autoclave it? Well, maybe I’ll get some pork chops…” The FDA, always 20 years too late, recently made that official. My octogenarian aunt still thinks anything less than “hockey puck” is unsafe, because Dr. Oz or some other TV charlatan. She’s even scared of my pulled pork because it’s moist and “looks not done enough” even though that gets cooked to 205°F. People need to be educated because listening to past generations passing on their ‘knowledge’ isn’t applicable. As someone pointed out, much types of seafood, such as shrimp, crabs, lobster, scallops, squid _et al_, have only 3 levels…raw, done, and rubber. Modern chicken farming makes serving chicken at less than fully done troublesome, and cooking it past fully done makes it unappetizing, and that’s why chicken (and turkey) doesn’t scale. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/19 "2015-12-09T17:05:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s pretty much my experience, although it’s more like “usually” for hamburgers. Fast food places generally won’t, but most sit-down restaurants and pubs that have those thick style (1/3 lb & up) burgers will ask you for your desired doneness around here. Which always perplexes me, because ground beef seems to be just as high or higher on the “cook it well done or suffer the consequences” scale as chicken or pork. Yet you have people asking you if you want a rare hamburger at commercial burger places. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904/20 "2015-12-09T17:15:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Which always perplexes me, because ground beef seems to be just as high or higher on the “cook it well done or suffer the consequences” scale as chicken or pork. Oh, chicken is far, far worse. I’ll eat raw pork and raw beef, but you’ll never find me eating raw chicken. I treat raw chicken like toxic waste in my kitchen. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-that-only-beef-has-a-donenest-scale/739904.md?page=2)