# Why is 'Jap' demeaning and 'Brit' is not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 25, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453 "2003-05-25T21:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kunoichi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4da419/32.png) [@kunoichi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kunoichi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/21 "2003-05-26T03:42:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\*Brit, as a shortening of British, doesn’t even appear in print until 1901, and then not in a demeaning usage. It wasn’t used in a negative way until the 1970’s in the US. And even then it was mild. \*\* Hmm. I’m sure my Scottish friends would be offended at being called Brits. Of course they don’t like Scotch either… On a somewhat related note, I noticed when I was in the UK, it was ok to call people from China, Japan, Korea, etc. “Orientals,” while in the US I know of many who would consider it extremely offensive. Of course a lot of people from Pakistan, India, and elsewhere on the subcontinent are offended by the American usage of “Asian” referring solely to East Asians (incidentally, from my limited experience, UK usage of Asian refers only to South Asians). Just my two cents 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kunoichi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4da419/32.png) [@kunoichi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kunoichi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/22 "2003-05-26T03:55:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Aw, c’mon, Ellen. Speak to him all the time. But be sure to preface every comment to him with, “You bigot.” Maybe then he’ll get the message. \*\* Sigh. Yet another “open-minded” person who resorts to their own type of slur. Does he shoot at you every day, Ellen? If not, then you should not call him a bigot. On the other hand, your coworker (if he really was in Vietnam during the war) probably had to dodge bullets fired by the people he refers to as “gooks” multiple times a day. My grandfather served in WWII. He got shot down and was held prisoner in China several times, and he still refers to the enemy as “Japs” (the Chinese actually would fight amongst themselves to turn him in, because the US offered very nice rewards for the safe return of their soldiers). He doesn’t necessarily use the word in a demeaning sense, it’s just what everyone called them at the time because they were the “bad guys,” when deep down he knew they were just doing the same thing as he was… fighting for their country. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/23 "2003-05-26T04:16:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kunoichi \* > My grandfather served in WWII. He got shot down and was held prisoner in China several times, and he still refers to the enemy as “Japs” (the Chinese actually would fight amongst themselves to turn him in, because the US offered very nice rewards for the safe return of their soldiers). **He doesn’t necessarily use the word in a demeaning sense** , … Yes he does. He may not realize it, but he does. If my grandfather still called Afro-Americans “niggers,” is he using the term in a “demeaning” sense? Of course. His motivation may be pure, but his usage is demeaning. **Ellen** We’ve done “gook” here. Search for the term. Goes back to very late 1800’s in Philippines I think. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Walker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ray\_Walker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Walker)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/24 "2003-05-26T04:42:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\* > Is Jap used in demeaning ways? > > Yes. > > Is it only used in demeaning ways? > > Yes. \*\* You don’t speak for me. I don’t use it disparagingly. ---
**Author:** ![karomon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@karomon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/karomon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/25 "2003-05-26T04:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\ ***Ellen** We’ve done “gook” here. Search for the term. > > Goes back to very late 1800’s in Philippines I think. \*\* From Korea, actually. Sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![kunoichi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4da419/32.png) [@kunoichi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kunoichi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/26 "2003-05-26T05:04:51Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by samclem \* \*\* If my grandfather still called Afro-Americans “niggers,” is he using the term in a “demeaning” sense? Of course. His motivation may be pure, but his usage is demeaning. [QUOTE] Afro-Americans is considered offensive nowadays, at least by my friends. Are you meaning to be demeaning? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/27 "2003-05-26T05:11:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by karomon \* > \*\*From Korea, actually. Sorry for the hijack. \*\* Can you post the thread where we did this? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/28 "2003-05-26T05:35:49Z")
> [@](#): > > If my grandfather still called Afro-Americans “niggers,” is he using the term in a “demeaning” sense? Of course. His motivation may be pure, but his usage is demeaning. I’m not sure about that. I have a friend whose grandpa used that term into the 90s, just because he was 93 himself and lived a very isolated life. I think his entire mass-media exposure was radio sermons, period, and even then not much. He lived on a farm in the middle of Kansas. I don’t think he was trying to be demeaning. He was just startlingly ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/29 "2003-05-26T06:17:09Z")
I think being demeaning - like being offensive, and many other things - lies in intent. I remember using the word Negro (as opposed to black) a few times in a 4th grade written report about Arthur Ashe. [The reason was mostly that most of the books I used were a few decades old, before some changes in terminology. I also felt somehow it sounded more polite than ‘blacks.’] This being on Long Island, nobody would’ve been around to be offended anyway. 😛 (_Hooray for living in the new Birmingham._) Any guitar players here ever heard of a Jap Strat? It’s not an offensive term at all, it’s just quick to say than “Japanese-made Stratocaster.” But it’s hard to judge someone else’s intent. Either way, in the case of words like nigger or Jap - given how popularly known their connotations are - you’ll rarely find someone using them who isn’t trying to be demeaning. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/30 "2003-05-26T06:35:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\*You bet it was. > > Cited as a negative stereotype in the mid-late 1800’s. But not in any way common the way it would be after WWII. It was more of a put-down demeaning orientals in general. It seems to have started life among sailors in the Far East. \*\* Possibly to the Japanese, but from the American context I don’t really know that I would characterize all use of the word “Jap” it as _intentionally_ demeaning. I have several fishing equipment and rod building books from the mid 30’s to late 40’s and the common use of the term “Jap silk” and “Jap gut” (regarding fishing lines) seem to be used in shorthand and technically descriptive way to identify the item being discussed as “Japanese” without any demeaning intent and some of this use was pre-war. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/31 "2003-05-26T06:55:00Z")
“Jap” was common — and neutral — usage in U.S. newspaper headlines from the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905) onward. Like Brit or US, it’s a space-saver. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/32 "2003-05-26T07:30:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > \*\*I’ve always considered “Brit” to be minorly derogatory. It might be okay to say in a joke, but I’d never say it to a British person’s face. \*\* I’m a British expatriot living in Silicon Valley, and don’t take any offense at the term **Brit**. You are quite welcome to say it to my face, **even sven**. It neatly sidesteps any problems of distinguishing between Scots, Welsh, and English. I had a Scots father and an English mother, so **Brit** suits me very well. It’s much better than an older Americanism, **“Britisher”**. What **does** make me wince, however, is when Americans, in public, put on what they imagine to be a British accent. Local newscasters will often try this around the time of the (tennis) Championships at Wimbledon – you can catch them slipping into what they probably imagine is a hilarious impression of an upper-class English accent. Alex Trebek, of the TV game show **Jeopardy** , also does this, not only with British accents but also with Australian, German, etc. The Memorial Day Concert from the West Lawn of the US Capitol in Washington DC, shown on PBS earlier this evening, had a musical tribute to the various branches of the US Armed Services. In the lead-in to this, they acknowledged the close alliance with the British, and the Union Jack appeared on the TV screen. The on-stage MC slipped into a “British” accent. **Ouch** (from my perspective, at least). I do not wish to imply that malice is intended in any of these examples. However, if the above-mentioned TV personalities were reporting on celebrations for the Chinese New Year, and slipped into what they perceived to be a Chinese accent, what do you think would happen? **They would be fired on the spot.** ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/33 "2003-05-26T07:45:09Z")
It has a lot to do with unspoken conventions about relationship and power. I lived in the States in the sixties and accepted without demur terms like limey and references to the sun setting on the British Empire etc… Americans similarly accepted humorous usage of damned yankees and intimations that they would have had a much better deal if they had stayed in the British fold. Because of the long term positive relationship between US and UK, such banter was acceptable. If I had been German or Japanese such mild abuse would be seen as reprehensible. This is why Hollywood has found it convenient to cast many many movie baddies with English accents or British actors- if the preponderance of baddies had come almost exclusively from another nation it would have been seen as racial stereotyping and hence unacceptable. So, Brit (and even limey) are aimed with affection and accepted with humor. ‘Jap’ is rarely aimed with affection, nor accepted with humor. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/34 "2003-05-26T07:52:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kunoichi \* > \*\*Hmm. I’m sure my Scottish friends would be offended at being called Brits. > 😃 \*\* No reason why they should be offended. The term "British’ was largely constructed to contain the English/Welsh with the Scots in the gradual Union that became Great Britain. Although the concept of ‘Ancient Briton’ existed, this was not applied to the medieval/early modern inhabitants of the islands. Before the |Union English/Welsh were referred to as English generally (Welsh specifying only Welsh but many references to ‘the English’ in historical texts contained the Welsh as well.) Scots were Scots. After the Union we were Brits. Now to call an Irishman a Brit is another matter. There is even resistance to having to call the Isles the British Isles. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/35 "2003-05-26T07:59:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > **Scots were Scots. After the Union we were Brits.** Yes, but there are a number of Scots who object to the Union. ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/36 "2003-05-26T09:50:49Z")
As a brit I prefer the word to limey, or pom for example, and would indeed use it to describe myself, as in this reply. I definitely agree with **Antonius Block** about the accent, no one here ever talks like that. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/37 "2003-05-26T09:59:14Z")
It’s like calling someone “Irish”… LOL ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/38 "2003-05-26T10:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Yes, but there are a number of Scots who object to the Union. \*\* And a number of the English would similarly object to the Union with the Scots. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/39 "2003-05-26T10:09:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Yes, but there are a number of Scots who object to the Union. \*\* Which never ceases to crack me up. I mean it was almost three hundred years ago. GET OVER IT. And I say that as an English/Scottish crossbreed. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453/40 "2003-05-26T10:10:57Z")
Regarding “gook”: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by karomon_ > > From Korea, actually. Sorry for the hijack. > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\*Can you post the thread where we did this? \*\* “Gook” is an old term. [According to this page,](http://www.wordwizard.com/clubhouse/founddiscuss.asp?Num=3128) it has a lineage of slur going back to the nineteenth century (used originally against women, referring to prostitutes), and has been used against both Asians and Polynesians. Can’t find the earlier thread discussing this, sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-demeaning-and-brit-is-not/177453.md?page=3)