# Why is "Jap" offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281 "2013-09-20T03:38:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/61 "2013-09-20T23:10:23Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Well, that wiki is just plain wrong, because “Chinaman” is not parallel with “Englishman, Frenchman, and Irishman”. “Chineseman” would be. I wouldn’t say it is “plain wrong,” because although the construction is not strictly equivalent it’s similar enough. The main point is that there’s nothing about the construction of the word that would mark it as offensive. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/62 "2013-09-21T00:18:50Z")
We’ve had a pretty long and fairly combative ATMB [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658693) where I argued that by making “Paki” off limits, you’re giving undue importance to racist pigs who used this word as a slur. Paki is the natural dimunitive form of Pakistani, like Brit or Aussie. As long as people aren’t using it to offend, we should make every attempt to allow it back into common parlance, instead of shushing people who use it unknowingly. In this, **AK84** , who is from Pakistan, and I were largely in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/63 "2013-09-21T00:51:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I wouldn’t say it is “plain wrong,” because although the construction is not strictly equivalent it’s similar enough. The main point is that there’s nothing about the construction of the word that would mark it as offensive. Yeah, analyzing why slurs are offensive just based on morphemes or whatever is often a dead end. It’s not like the slur for black people is darkfucker and for middle eastern people is mideastwhore where it’s kind of obvious it’s meant to be bad because curse words are right there in the name. Hell, even many offensive words are ultimately innocuous. Some slurs are obviously offensive like “sand nigger”, but those ultimately derive from another slur (in this case “nigger”) which really just leaves the problem of analyzing it one step removed. Words tend to be offensive because they are, usually for historical reasons and very occasionally it’s just a silly dyphemism/euphemism treadmill. Analyzing it and saying “it’s obviously not offensive because it’s like this!” really gets you nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/64 "2013-09-21T03:07:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > You actually told a citizen of Pakistan that he was using the wrong term for people from his own country? :eek: > > Thats like correcting a black person for referring to themselves as African-American. 😛 A black person has every right to use any term they want for their own ethnic group. Yeah, I did. His usage of “Pakistanian” was about as idiotic as if I went to some other and called myself “Americanese”. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/65 "2013-09-21T05:42:28Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’ve been reading all of Raymond Chandler’s novels. In one (_The High Window_) Sam Spade describes someone thusly: > > Just an observation. FTR that would be Phillip Marlowe, not Sam Spade…whose name I hope is not offensive. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/66 "2013-09-21T11:17:31Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > FTR that would be Phillip Marlowe, not Sam Spade…whose name I hope is not offensive. 😛 Heh, good catch. Sorry bout that. Yep, Marlowe.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/67 "2013-09-21T13:00:58Z")
I understand. Those gumshoes all look alike to me. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/68 "2013-09-21T13:18:41Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I understand. Those gumshoes all look alike to me. Compounded by the fact that I’m reading/rereading Dashiell Hammett’s works as well.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/69 "2013-09-22T21:10:59Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > To us Japanese here in Hawaii, Jap ain’t a pejorative. Unless you use it as one and try to be insulting. We also have no problem with being called Oriental **since being called Asiatic implies being Chinese.** Huh? Since when does “Asiatic” particularly imply Chinese? Is that a Hawaiian thing? And is it that specific word, or also “Asian”? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/70 "2013-09-22T22:07:04Z")
It doesn’t seem to be offensive in Ireland but then there are vanishingly few Japanese-Irish people. There was a famous character around Dublin’s Trinity College who died a few years ago and he went by the name “Matt The Jap”. Near my house there are signs for “Jap Motors”. I imagine it is considered gauche these days to use as people get a bit more global minded but I don’t think it’s (here) in the same league as paki, nigger, chink etc. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/71 "2013-09-22T22:30:57Z")
Well, I have never even heard the slur “paki” until this thread. I had also never heard of “jap” being used as a verb the way **Colibri** describes it. I’m 40 years old for those keeping score at home. Anyway, another thing that hasn’t been stressed enough in answering the OP is the dehumanization loaded into the slur “jap”. For example, have you heard about [the church bombings in Pakistan that killed 71 people](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-22/pakistan-suicide-bombs-kill-60-during-church-service-in-peshawar.html)? Here is how some reacted: > [@](#): > > “Those who did this were not humans,” Imran Khan, whose party runs Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, told reporters outside the hospital in Peshawar. The article goes on to point out that there have been 858 terrorist attacks in Pakistan this year. While the guy I quoted has a point in a way, well we can’t take it too literally, now, can we? But you’ll hear more of it the more this goes on. Now consider that the IJA killed many orders of magnitude more people than the Pakistani terrorists, so give some thought to just how loaded with bad intentions the slur “jap” might have once become. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/72 "2013-09-22T23:47:02Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Paki is the natural dimunitive form of Pakistani, like Brit or Aussie. The “natural diminutive” form that I have seen being used openly is “Pak.” ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/73 "2013-09-23T00:40:36Z")
[QUOTE=48Willys;16683862 1. This, My uncle is a statistic of the Bataan Death March. My aunts and uncles who lost their brother will not soon forget, nor will their kids. My brother and my sisters will not forget this atrocity in our life times. 2. As far as Jap being a slur, you bet it is. However, I find that many of my “Japanese American” friends, as well as some Japanese folks I know, do not find Jap offensive. In fact they often use it themselves. 3. I often wonder if some folks just enjoy being offended. Sometimes I think that these folks go looking to find something to be offended at. “Japanese Americans” and all. Get a grip folks.[/QUOTE] 4. 2 of my best friends were in Jap POW camps in ww2. They told me quite clearly all the atrocities they suffered from rank and file ordinary jap soldiers. My cousin was killed by the japs in Burma. Those are not fond memories. 5. That said, I always thought jap was a good abreviation, shorter, easier to write, easier to spell, less of a mouthful than japanese or japaneseamerican. 6. I agree. I also think lots of people enjoy changing the meaning of words: bad=good, gay=happy, hot and cool can be the same, ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/74 "2013-09-23T00:57:03Z")
Please do not use Jap. It is offensive. You don’t get to choose what’s offensive to people, even if you don’t like those people. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/75 "2013-09-23T02:47:22Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > 1. I agree. I also think lots of people enjoy changing the meaning of words: bad=good, gay=happy, hot and cool can be the same, These are your examples of “chang_ing_” meanings? Are you like 92 years old? ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/76 "2013-09-23T03:31:18Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Happily, we were not taught hatred of Germans (in general), but of the Nazis (and actually, more the Polish people who were my parents neighbors and witnesses to the camps and did nothing). It helped that post-war Germany owned what they did- paid reparations and actually did try to make amends and taught their own history to their own citizens. My parents actually lived in Germany for a short time after the war. What we were taught was to be wary- watch your government- whoever that may be- and fight for the rights of people being marginalized. > > But because of the real horrors my parents watched and had happen to them directly- my house growing up was often a scary one. PTSD flashbacks are scary to be in the middle of as a small child, and the treatments were pretty non-existant. The huge extent of the damage done to the survivors made it very difficult to overcome. > > So, it wasn’t a choice whether or not the children be “taught” what happened to their parents. They were still living it and so were we. This is a real (though complex) phenomenon- secondary PTSD in children of holocaust. Here is a good summary article. More literature exists. survivorshttp://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2016824,00.html > > Like your neighbor, my parents came with nothing (having fought in Israel first, my dad giving up his spot to come to USA right away), built successful a business, had four kids. Two of us are college professors, one just retired as an elementary school principal and one a special ed teacher. Thats an intersting article - makes me wonder about me 😃 I’ve noted here a few times, my grandfather was a Dutch soldier, captured by the Japanese and survived working the Thai-Bruma Railway. My grandmother, mother and uncle were also POW’s in civillian camps in Indonesia (I know some of the details about what they experienced but it was never really talked about when I was growing up). Post-war they came to Australia, started a chicken farm and never looked back. My mother has never had many good things to say about the Japanese (even refusing to visit Japan when my dad went there for a conference) while my grandfather seemed to have moved on, refusing to condemn an entire group of people for the actions of individuals. Growing up in Australia in the 1970’s the term ‘Jap’ was pretty common, I’m sure I slip up occasion but I do try my absolute damndest not to use it now. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/77 "2013-09-23T11:11:08Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Please do not use Jap. It is offensive. You don’t get to choose what’s offensive to people, even if you don’t like those people. But Japanese people claim that they can call people “gaijin” and it’s not an insult because only Japanese can tell you what a Japanese word means. So you’d tell them to go fuck themselves right? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/78 "2013-09-23T11:26:51Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > But Japanese people claim that they can call people “gaijin” and it’s not an insult because only Japanese can tell you what a Japanese word means. So you’d tell them to go fuck themselves right? I don’t know what you’re talking about (not familiar with that term). I’d tell who to go fuck themselves? Why? In the US Jap is an offensive term. Just because a person has bitter memories of what the Japenese did to your family doesn’t mean you get to decide that Jap is not an offensive slur. Choose to use it- be prepared for people to think you are using a racist term. You don’t get to decide to reclaim it and tell the Japanese people to get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/79 "2013-09-23T11:56:26Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > But Japanese people claim that they can call people “gaijin” and it’s not an insult because only Japanese can tell you what a Japanese word means. So you’d tell them to go fuck themselves right? I think you’ll find that most people agree that Japanese society has a problem with racism and xenophobia. Is that what you’re getting at? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281/80 "2013-09-23T11:58:43Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > But Japanese people claim that they can call people “gaijin” and it’s not an insult because only Japanese can tell you what a Japanese word means. So you’d tell them to go fuck themselves right? Hows about I give you full permission to insult back any individual who first insults you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jap-offensive/669281.md?page=5)