# Why is Jewish American food so terrible when so many US Jews readily appreciate fine food? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795 "2012-03-25T22:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/61 "2012-03-27T00:49:58Z")
Lileks gets mentioned in every one of these threads. Here’s a question: how many of the recipes that he ironically posts have you ever actually tried? Cook books from the 50’s through the 70’s fascinate me, I have a huge pile of them, and actually cook from them. The greatest fault I can find in the worst things I tried was that they were bland. Unusual or repulsive combinations of flavors don’t show up often in those old cookbooks as they were aimed at people who were part of a “meat and potatoes” culture. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/62 "2012-03-27T01:35:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Lileks gets mentioned in every one of these threads. Here’s a question: how many of the recipes that he ironically posts have you ever actually tried? Cook books from the 50’s through the 70’s fascinate me, I have a huge pile of them, and actually cook from them. The greatest fault I can find in the worst things I tried was that they were bland. Unusual or repulsive combinations of flavors don’t show up often in those old cookbooks as they were aimed at people who were part of a “meat and potatoes” culture. ISTM in many of the cases the biggest sin in the Gallery’s old cookbooks is the presentation/plating portrayed, and the copy that breathlessly sells it as exciting when it’s just OK. Some of it when just read as a recipe w/o the pictures or ad copy sounds perfectly fine though one may not drool for it. But still, it was often bland and overprocessed. And some people carried over the bland/overprocessed _ethos_ to their “traditional” foods. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/63 "2012-03-27T02:03:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > As for traditional dishes such as kasha and kugel and matzoh ball soup, which the typical Jewish foodie eats maybe once or twice a year at family get-togethers, there’s not much incentive for coming up with gourmet versions of them. Or once/twice a week for Shabbat. I have to say, I prefer Persian-Jewish food to Ashkenazi cooking, despite being whiter than White-Out. That may be because there’s a Persian family down the street that makes large restaurant-quality meals every Shabbat, and for all I know during the rest of the week as well. We practically throw a celebration when they send over some of their leftovers to our house. Or maybe it’s just that I don’t like cholent. Either one. (Chicken soup, on the other hand, is my favorite meat food. So +1 to the Ashkenzim for that one). ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/64 "2012-03-27T13:04:45Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Or once/twice a week for Shabbat. How do you get two Shabbats in a week? I’m _very_ interested, since I use Shabbat as my excuse for putting off chores on Saturday. I could really use another Shabbat, especially now that there’s Passover cleaning to procrastinate on. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/65 "2012-03-27T13:50:17Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > How do you get two Shabbats in a week? I’m _very_ interested, since I use Shabbat as my excuse for putting off chores on Saturday. I could really use another Shabbat, especially now that there’s Passover cleaning to procrastinate on. Shabbos dinner Friday night and leftovers on Saturday, would be my guess. That’s how the cholent rolled in our house, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/66 "2012-03-27T14:04:15Z")
Right. Some dishes tend to be served Friday night, some Saturday lunch, and some both. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/67 "2012-03-27T14:34:26Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Right. Some dishes tend to be served Friday night, some Saturday lunch, and some both. You mean… you haven’t found a way to have more than one Shabbat in a week? ☹ You got my hopes up and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/68 "2012-03-27T14:37:13Z")
Aw, sorry. There are some two-day holidays. If there’s a Shabbat immedietly before or after, it’s effectively a three-day holiday. Would that help? ---
**Author:** ![kierkegaard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@kierkegaard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kierkegaard)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/69 "2016-09-30T22:19:57Z")
The original question referred to “Jewish American” food. You didn’t want to offend, but some Jewish folk took offense. Let me address the other part. I am not Jewish, but a native “American.” The USA has the same relationship with food that Alzheimer’s has to a person’s brain. It only ever gets worse. Just one example: remember many years ago when Chinese food was strange and wonderful? Now everybody goes to Thai restaurants. Not too far in the future they will stink. As soon as you see the ketchup and giant drinks packed with ice cubes, it’s over for another Americanized cuisine. ---
**Author:** ![kierkegaard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@kierkegaard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kierkegaard)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/70 "2016-09-30T22:33:54Z")
Look at what has happened to “Greek yogurt” since it was discovered by Americans. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/71 "2016-10-01T00:16:50Z")
My mother’s matzo ball soup is beyond reproach, as is her goulash. But the one-two punch is that my people invented the bagel – which I invariably point out to my co-workers, whenever I bring bagels to the office to get savored by folks who appreciate 'em – plus, y’know, deli sandwiches. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/72 "2016-10-01T00:53:29Z")
I will concede bagels, and I am a convert to Judaism as I probably mention too often, but matzoh ball soup and gefiltie fish fellate with great allacrity. Something I cannot name at Rubin’s deli in Brookline, Massachusetts, stuffed into lamb intestines is on the other hand, wonderful. Tzimmes? Rubin’s closed. Surely a sign of the Second Coming! No, wait… ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/73 "2016-10-01T05:25:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Something I cannot name at Rubin’s deli in Brookline, Massachusetts, stuffed into lamb intestines is on the other hand, wonderful. Tzimmes? I think you’re describing kishke (or kishka). And those of you who think Jewish-American food sucks because you’ve had gefilte fish that comes in jars: would you judge Chinese cuisine by La Choy? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/74 "2016-10-01T08:53:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But the one-two punch is that my people invented the bagel – which I invariably point out to my co-workers, whenever I bring bagels to the office to get savored by folks who appreciate 'em – plus, y’know, deli sandwiches. Bagels and deli sandwiches - which are indisputably good eats - are \*American \*Jewish food. They originated from the Lower East Side, not Poland. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/75 "2016-10-01T09:00:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Bagels and deli sandwiches - which are indisputably good eats - are \*American \*Jewish food. And the title of the thread asks, _why is Jewish American food so terrible?_ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/76 "2016-10-01T12:50:55Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I think you’re describing kishke (or kishka). > > And those of you who think Jewish-American food sucks because you’ve had gefilte fish that comes in jars: would you judge Chinese cuisine by La Choy? Thanks! I’ve cleaned out too many aquariums to eat fish in any form. My step daughter used to drink chocolate milk with gefilte fish. I like latkes. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/77 "2016-10-01T18:45:42Z")
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that traditional Jewish food hasn’t been that good in North America because schmaltz is hard to come by. Find a deli that uses schmaltz in their recipes and I’ll bet you the food is great. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/78 "2016-10-01T18:53:23Z")
Schmaltz is hard to come by? Put chicken fat in a pan and heat it up. Schmaltz. Make chicken stock, refrigerate overnight. The yellowish stuff you scrape off the top is schmaltz. I always have more schmaltz around than I can use. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/79 "2016-10-01T19:01:51Z")
I think I would enjoy gribenes. I wish these was place where I live that makes it, so I can see for myself. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795/80 "2016-10-01T19:32:15Z")
(Sigh) Okay, again, put your chicken fat and skin in a pan with just enough water to cover. Simmer it until all the water boils away. The liquid stuff in your pan is SCHMALTZ. The crispy browned solid bits are GRIBENES. Take the gribenes out of the fat (NO! Not with your fingers!), put them on absorbent paper to drain, sprinkle a little salt on them, and eat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jewish-american-food-so-terrible-when-so-many-us-jews-readily-appreciate-fine-food/616795.md?page=5)