# Why Is JFK So Deified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541 "2015-12-28T06:44:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/41 "2015-12-29T17:26:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Judicial Watch (not exactly a neutral source) puts the taxpayer cost of [all of the Obama family’s personal travel](http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article50172810.html) since 2009 at $70 million. It’s certainly not the cost of a single vacation, as our new friend implies. That’s still $10 million per year spent on vacations. JFK was before my time, so I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but I see parallels between Kennedy & Obama, in that both were/are media darlings, and as a result the media went out of their way to paint them in the best possible light. If Obama had been assassinated, I suspect we’d be seeing the same sort of deification that Kennedy got. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/42 "2015-12-29T17:31:40Z")
I agree that he was assassinated at a time that kept him from getting negative press and let him get credit for good that LBJ implemented and LBJ take the blame for bad. But I think people are also overlooking that the assassination happened at a time when it was very big for a lot of baby boomers, who have had a lot of influence over pop culture, and are very centered on their own narrative. It also happened during the start of national media, which made it more of an ‘everyone’ event than it would have been before you could see it on TV. I think the fact that it happened at both a peak media time and peak Baby Boomer time made the JFK mythology stick a lot better than a similar event would have 10 years earlier or later. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/43 "2015-12-29T17:44:01Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > That’s still $10 million per year spent on vacations. Sure. But it’s the cost of security and operating Air Force One. It’s not like Obama is expensing his hotel rooms. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/44 "2015-12-29T19:15:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure. But it’s the cost of security and operating Air Force One. It’s not like Obama is expensing his hotel rooms. Forget it, Jake. This is Smudgetown. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/45 "2015-12-29T19:17:59Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > For more, see the aforementioned _A Thousand Days_, … That’s about the seventh time you’ve recommended that book. I may have read it _before you were born_. Have you read Hersh’s book? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/46 "2015-12-29T20:02:46Z")
Just the second time I mentioned Schlesinger’s book here, I think. I haven’t read the Hersh book about JFK, for the reasons I explained in another related thread. I have read other books of his. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/47 "2015-12-29T22:54:09Z")
Diceman writes: \> That’s still $10 million per year spent on vacations. And how much did each of the recent Presidents spend per year on vacations? Please make sure you’re citing comparable figures in each case. You can’t cite the entire cost of all the Secret Service protection in one case and just the cost of a hotel room for the President in the other case. Until we know that, you’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/48 "2015-12-29T23:31:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Not really. The Chicago machine could have been incarcerated to the last man and Illinois could have gone 99% for Nixon and he would still have won the election. Nixon could even have taken Illinois and all of Byrd’s Electoral votes and JFK would have still won. The accusation is that JFK stole Illinois and Texas, and if those two states had gone to Nixon, it would have put him to 270, and he would have won. I don’t know that the Texas accusation is true, and there are states he won with a closer margin than Texas (Hawaii, New Jersey), but that’s the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/49 "2015-12-30T00:36:17Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Diceman writes: > > \> That’s still $10 million per year spent on vacations. > > And how much did each of the recent Presidents spend per year on vacations? Please make sure you’re citing comparable figures in each case. You can’t cite the entire cost of all the Secret Service protection in one case and just the cost of a hotel room for the President in the other case. Until we know that, you’ve got nothing. I don’t usually take up that much for Obama but I agree. Until we know what is included in that figure, it is meaningless. I am sure that Air Force 1 costs in the 6 figures an hour range to operate just by itself. Obama wasn’t wealthy when he took office and his $400,000 salary is fairly low given the responsibilities and work-load (he has to pay for his personal household expenses and parties as well). I also doubt his “vacations” are real ones in the normal sense either. He may get to put fewer hours a day in a different location but there is no way to get away from that job and he is always on call. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/50 "2015-12-30T01:03:03Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > That’s still $10 million per year spent on vacations. Making an issue of presidential vacations and golf time has been a popular and idiotic form of political gotcha in recent years. If Obama were to disappear to a hidden Hawaiian beach and refuse contact in the event of a crisis, it would mean something. I don’t see that happening. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/51 "2015-12-30T03:33:42Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But the important thing is that we actually do remember JFK. Most other presidents fade away. > No other president has spoken with a voice that still rings through history. Offhand, I can’t think of a single quote from any other president. > But JFK gave us lots of them. “Ich bin Ein Berliner.” “Ask not what your country can do for you.” “put a man on the moon before the decade is out.” “we will pay any price, bear any burden…for liberty” “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.” --FDR “The buck stops here.” --Harry Truman “Beware of the military-industrial complex.” -Dwight Eisenhower “Let us reason together.” --LBJ “You won’t have Dick Nixon to kick around any more.” “I am not a crook.” --Nixon “This is the moral equivalent of war.” --Jimmy Carter “There you go again!” “There’s a bear in the woods.” --Reagan “A thousand points of light.” --George Bush “That depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is.” “I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky.” --Bill Clinton “We cannot give in to the soft bigotry of lowered expectations.” --George W. Bush “I have something that rhymes with ‘bucket list.’” --Barack Obama The quotes are there if you look for them. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/52 "2015-12-30T03:52:23Z")
Well, “ **I am not a crook.** ” is not exactly _inspirational_, is it ? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/53 "2015-12-30T06:08:55Z")
Only the FDR quote is in the same league as JFK’s greatest hits. The rest are either bad things to remember someone for or stuff most people don’t actually remember. Oh yeah, FDR’s “A day that will live in infamy” also comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/54 "2015-12-30T06:31:10Z")
Here are a bunch of Presidential quotes: > **[Inspiring Quotes On Life, Liberty, And The Pursuit Of Happiness From Every US...](https://www.businessinsider.com/best-inspirational-quotes-from-us-presidents-2014-7)** > > These leaders probably had the toughest job in the world. Here are a few of the things they learned from it. > **[50 Greatest Presidential Quotes of All Time](https://ivn.us/2013/08/27/50-greatest-presidential-quotes-of-all-time)** > > A president’s legacy is defined not only by his actions, but also by his words. Those who have held the highest office in the United States know well that what they say has impacts far beyond the podi > **[Presidential Quotes](https://www.infoplease.com/us/government/executive-branch/presidential-quotes)** > > Quotes from every single U.S. president > **[55 Inspiring Presidential Quotes That Will Change Your Life - LifeHack](https://www.lifehack.org/articles/productivity/55-inspiring-quotes-from-presidents-that-will-change-your-life.html)** > > Inspiring quotes by U.S. presidents that will inspire the leader within yourself. Look through them and tell me if you think Kennedy’s quotes were so much better. Frankly, I think all the Presidential quotes I’ve looked at sound to me like typical inspirational quotes - inspiring when you first hear them and haven’t had time to think about them, but only applicable to limited special situations when you think carefully about them. I don’t think inspirational quotes are very useful. They’re all supposed to get people cheering when they’re said in a rousing speech, but they aren’t that applicable to most circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/55 "2015-12-30T07:24:57Z")
I don’t think it’s so much a matter of who’s quotes were better, but rather whose quotes come to mind most readily when the president in question is mentioned. Most people seem to think of Kennedy’s “_Ask not_” and “_Put a man on the moon_” and “_We will pay any price_” quotes almost simultaneously with mention of his name. No other quote, not even FDR’s “_fear inself_” quote made during a time of war, comes to mind so readily with the mention of that president’s name. In other words, Kennedy’s charisma caused these quotes to resonate with and be taken to heart by the populace in such a deep and long-lasting way that he’s famous for them even now, fifty-two years after his death. I don’t think the same could be said for the other quotes mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/56 "2015-12-30T07:34:24Z")
A little perspective here. Vietnam didn’t ramp up until LBJ pushed the Gulf Of Tonkin Resolution through Congress. And frankly, I think the Vietnamese were more committed to National Liberation than Communism, though they’d say the words and act like they were to get the military support to get the French and later the U.S. out of there. During the Bush I administration, I think it was, on a round trip to and from Denver, I crossed paths with AF 1. Besides the Presidential aircraft, parked near it on the tarmac was at least one C-141, because I guess there’s no way to fit an armored stretch Lincoln or a covey of armored black Yukons (or whatever the the USSS used back then) in a Boeing 747. Let’s look at the corrected for inflation costs for vacations of ALL Presidencies before you start shouting how Obama is wasting taxpayer money. ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/57 "2015-12-30T13:53:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Absolutely, although I’ll nitpick about the “rebuilding our conventional military”. Relying on nukes by Ike was by design. He figured we couldn’t compete with the Soviets conventionally, so why waste money? After all, he was the guy who said that every dollar spent on a bomb or missile was food taken out of someone’s mouth or something close to that. Having a strong nuclear deterrent, the theory went, was more than enough to deter the Soviets and thus he wanted to concentrate on that. > > I think that being a general, he also knew that if we had a big conventional military, we’d be inclined to use it, and sure enough we’ve used it over and over and over again. > > Not that Kennedy was wrong, but I disagree with the characterization that it was dangerous. It was a valid strategy given what Ike knew at the time. Good observation. The fact is, Ike knew that all the “prestige” projects that Kennedy wanted were just window dressing-he refused to be drawn into the “space race”. The alleged “missile gap” with Russia was (mostly) propaganda floated by big defense contractors (Raytheon, General Dynamics) who wanted big $$ contracts. Ike spoke out against thye military industrial complex-while Kennedy fell for it, lock, stock and barrel. And historians tell us that the whole Cuban Millile “crisis” was mostly posturing-the USA had missiles in Turkey, pointed at Russia as well… Kennedy lives on because of a great propaganda machine, mainly run and financed by his father. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/58 "2015-12-30T13:57:35Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Mr. Obama spends $70 million on a holiday ? > > The shrimp must be exceptionally good. Nah, he’s just popular. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/59 "2015-12-30T14:07:36Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > Good observation. The fact is, Ike knew that all the “prestige” projects that Kennedy wanted were just window dressing-he refused to be drawn into the “space race”. The alleged “missile gap” with Russia was (mostly) propaganda floated by big defense contractors (Raytheon, General Dynamics) who wanted big $$ contracts. Ike spoke out against thye military industrial complex-while Kennedy fell for it, lock, stock and barrel. And historians tell us that the whole Cuban Millile “crisis” was mostly posturing-the USA had missiles in Turkey, pointed at Russia as well… > Kennedy lives on because of a great propaganda machine, mainly run and financed by his father. There you go. Kennedy very nearly STARTED WW3 with his shit. Kennedy fucked up the Bay of Pigs things. IIRC, it was a war crime, but, I could be wrong. It doesn’t matter fuck all if Eisenhower planned it; Kennedy could have stopped it in an instant. He interfered in the planning. Once he screwed the pooch, he kept the invasion training camps going. The Cuban Missile Crisis came about because the Cubans appealed to the Soviet Union for help, after the US invasion the previous year. Then, JFK committed an act of war by blockading Cuba. Kruschev, rather than adhering to the laws of war and of free nations, allowed his ships to be stopped rather than defend the USSRs rights. Rather than simply promise to remove the Turkish missiles, which were 2 miles away from Russia, he threatened a war with Cuba. And on, and on… He is deified because the majority of people in the US were/are Democrats, he made for great press, and his propaganda machine was second to none. He was also aristocratic, and the US, as every other nation, does love it’s royalty. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/60 "2015-12-30T14:08:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t think it’s so much a matter of who’s quotes were better, but rather whose quotes come to mind most readily when the president in question is mentioned. Most people seem to think of Kennedy’s “_Ask not_” and “_Put a man on the moon_” and “_We will pay any price_” quotes almost simultaneously with mention of his name. No other quote, not even FDR’s “_fear inself_” quote made during a time of war, comes to mind so readily with the mention of that president’s name. > > In other words, Kennedy’s charisma caused these quotes to resonate with and be taken to heart by the populace in such a deep and long-lasting way that he’s famous for them even now, fifty-two years after his death. I don’t think the same could be said for the other quotes mentioned. An equally valid explanation is that Kennedy is remembered for his pithy quotes because there’s not much else to remember. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541.md?page=4)