# Why is Judy Garland a gay icon? Something she said or her work just appeals to gays? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473 "2005-05-11T23:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/1 "2005-05-11T23:11:58Z")
Do many gay folks admire her simply for her work, or did she also ever say anything supportive of gay people? Had she ever mentioned gays at all, supportive or otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/2 "2005-05-11T23:26:37Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Do many gay folks admire her simply for her work, or did she also ever say anything supportive of gay people? > > Had she ever mentioned gays at all, supportive or otherwise? Didn’t she wear rather mannish outfits later in her career? Marc ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/3 "2005-05-11T23:30:51Z")
I think there are about 10,500 books on the subject, so don’t exactly know where to begin. Many Gay men identified with her on screen/on stage vulnerability and with her off-stage constant setbacks and comebacks from adversity. She certainly was aware of the fact that huge numbers of Gay men were her fans, and even though there are a few less-than-positive remarks she made about the fact, for the most part she played to her Gay audience and made them feel welcomed. And though I wasn’t old enough to be there, from what I have been by guys who were there, it was quite the event to be Gay and go to a Judy Garland concert. Imagine the biggest Gay bar in town and there you were in the front row. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/4 "2005-05-11T23:37:51Z")
Didn’t she joke that when she dies, the flags on Fire Ireland (NY) will be at half staff? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/5 "2005-05-11T23:38:55Z")
Sorry, Fire _Island_. ---
**Author:** ![VernWinterbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c67d28/32.png) [@VernWinterbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VernWinterbottom)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/6 "2005-05-11T23:45:41Z")
I always thought it was based on the symbolism of “Over the Rainbow,” representing a mythical place where gays are completely accepted by everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/7 "2005-05-12T00:26:14Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Didn’t she joke that when she dies, the flags on Fire Island (NY) will be at half staff? Yes she did, and the irony is that the birth of the modern Gay Rights movement in America is usually attributed to [the weekend of her death](http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/stonewall_riots.html) (though the exact role her death played in it is up for debate). ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/8 "2005-05-12T00:38:15Z")
Didn’t Judy marry a gay man (Vincente Minelli)? And didn’t her daughter Liza keep up the family tradition by marrying not one, but two gay men (Peter Allen & David Gest)? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/9 "2005-05-12T03:10:51Z")
> [@VernWinterbottom](#): > > I always thought it was based on the symbolism of “Over the Rainbow,” representing a mythical place where gays are completely accepted by everyone. I never realized that’s what Oz was a Metaphor for… “Scrub Scrub, here! Scrub Scrub, there! And a couple of tra-de-das! A man can wash another man in the merry old land of OZ!” ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/10 "2005-05-12T03:23:00Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I never realized that’s what Oz was a Metaphor for… > > “Scrub Scrub, here! Scrub Scrub, there! > And a couple of tra-de-das! > A man can wash another man in the merry old land of OZ!” Somebody’s been watching Family Guy… ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/11 "2005-05-12T03:51:29Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Didn’t Judy marry a gay man (Vincente Minelli)? And didn’t her daughter Liza keep up the family tradition by marrying not one, but two gay men (Peter Allen & David Gest)? Judy’s father, Frank Gumm, was also gay. Had Liza had children with Peter Allen or David Gest, it’s very likely that a vortex would have opened and all of the world would have become gay. (Of course Natasha Richardson’s family tree has lavendar blossoms as well; her grandfather, father and two uncles are all gay, and while husband Liam Neeson isn’t, he did play Oscar Wilde which counts for something.) > [@EJsGirl](#): > > Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Being gay, no. Being gay and marrying uninformed women- that’s another story. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/12 "2005-05-12T03:58:46Z")
Vincente Minnelli had three wives and two children. While he didn’t come across as the most masculine of men, I wouldn’t call him gay either. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/13 "2005-05-12T05:22:08Z")
On a tangent, since it’s propably been answered a million times before and doesn’t merit its own thread: What’s the deal with Streisand? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/14 "2005-05-12T05:45:18Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > What’s the deal with Streisand? He’s the best damned drag queen there ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/15 "2005-05-12T06:01:22Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > He’s the best damned drag queen there ever was. 😃 or should it be ;j ? ---
**Author:** ![H3Knuckles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@H3Knuckles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/H3Knuckles)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/16 "2005-05-12T06:28:05Z")
That last joke was my personaly payoff for reading this entire thread. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![H3Knuckles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@H3Knuckles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/H3Knuckles)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/17 "2005-05-12T06:30:59Z")
that should be personal, NOT personaly :smack: ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/18 "2005-05-12T12:31:17Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Vincente Minnelli had three wives and two children. While he didn’t come across as the most masculine of men, I wouldn’t call him gay either. Insofar that Judy Garland came home and caught him having sex with another man in their bed, I wouldn’t call him straight either. IIRC, Judy Garland’s last husband was bisexual as well. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/19 "2005-05-12T13:03:54Z")
On what authority is that Garland-Minnelli anecdote? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473/20 "2005-05-12T14:04:19Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > IIRC, Judy Garland’s last husband was bisexual as well. And had an affair with Peter Allen while the latter was married to li’l Liza, if I remember my gay scandal iconage correctly… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-judy-garland-a-gay-icon-something-she-said-or-her-work-just-appeals-to-gays/303473.md?page=2)