Thank you. I was searching the thread to see if anybody had pointed this out.
OK, US citizens…
most European countries do not have an Independence Day; no Western European country does. The Roman Empire kind’a fell apart on its own and nobody was tracking when was the last time the tax collector came by
countries in the Commonwealth do not have an Independence Day. Elizabeth II is the queen of Canada. And of Australia. And of New Zealand.
Several Latin American countries call Independence Day a day when they rebelled against the French who had invaded Spain - not against the Spaniards. For example, Mexico’s March 5. Which is a Mexican holiday, don’t congratulate any other Hispanic on it or he’ll have serious problems keeping a straight face. “Dia de la Hispanidad” or “Dia del Descubrimiento” is October 12.
Remember those tidbits and you’ll be able to avoid one of the most horrid pitfalls you guys have when meeting foreigners: asking “oh, is it Independence Day?” during the Easter religious parades :smack:
Australia has a national day rather than an independence day. It’s known as *Australia Day * (surprise, surprise). It’s next Wednesday on 26 January. It commemorates the arrival of the First Fleet in Sydney on 26 January 1788. The day when we might celebrate independence would arguably be 1 January, since the Commonwealth of Australia came into existence on 1 January 1901. But that’s already a holiday for New Year’s Day anyway.
This day was celebrated from the beginning (the following year), though it became only much later a national day. Only for its symbolic value, I assume (the people storming aking’s fortress and prison).
The rule of the comitee of public safety (hence of Robespierre) was rather short. Before it, there was a constitutional monarchy (the king retaining rights comparable to those of the US president), then after the king’s arrest, the convention, and after it the Directorate. Robespierre wasn’t the main figure of the revolution from day one. He’s certainly very well known, but so are others like Mirabeau or Danton.
I would add that the terror was deemend necessary since the Republic was about to crumble (Spain and England and attacked in the south and and west, several provinces were in a state of open revolt, the austrians had occupied the east and north of the country and so on…
There’s no equivalent to the american founding fathers in France. From my french point of view, these men seem to be revered in the US like unafaillible apostoles who brought the sacred scriptures (the US constitution), sort of.
Robespierre is generally viewed negatively as the “bad guy”, Danton (one of the main republican leaders, excuted under the Comitee of Public Safety rule) being generally perceived, in a simplistic way, as the “good guy” in the strugle.
However, amongst scholars, there has been a long-standing debate about Robespierre (“Was what he did necessary to save the republic?”, and “was he more of a republican than his colleagues, at least in intent?” very, very roughly).
I would note by the way (refering to another post) that Montreuil, near Paris, has been a traditionnal stronghold of the communist party, and that communist intelectuals generally had a favorable view of Robespierre. hence the existence of a “Robespierre” station in this town. Also, the paper quoted in the same post (l’humanite) is the daily of the french communist party.
Napoleon, who was one of the “20 yo generals” of the republic (young men who, following their successes on the battlefield rose in rank at lightspeed due to the lack of officers in the republican army), ovethrew the republican directorate in a military coup. He first proclaimed himself first consul of the republic (keeping for himself essentially all powers) and later became emperor. But he was emperor in France, and this title had nothing to do with the (german) Holy Roman Emperor.
The rule of Napoleon was different from the old regime because, despite ruling as a dictator, he kept several important advances of the republic (like the abolition of priviledges, the equality of citizens before law, a constitutionnal system, etc…). Not that the rights of citizens were fully respected under his reign, but it was a significant improvment over the monarchy.
Also, he completely reorganized the country, the court system, the education system, the administrative system, published the Napoleonic code, and so on. Here too there was a very significant improvment, and a large part of his reforms still hold on today.
When the monarchy was restored with Louis XVIII, there was a significant, but not complete, turn back. For instance, the king “granted” a “charter” (instead of accepting a constitution). It was clear, even at this time, that a complete return to the former’s monarchy’s ways wasn’t anymore possible in France.
When did France really get democracy? When did they establish a real constituition and have real elections? This seems like a more appropriate “Independence Day” to me.
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Shortly : in 1815, the monarchy was restored. In 1830, following a revolution, the king was replaced and a constitutionnal monarchy established, limiting severely the king’s power. In 1848; a new revolution overthrew the last french king, Louis-Philippe, and the second republic was proclaimed. Unfortunately, the popular nephew of Napoleon was elected president, and restored the empire some years later. After his defeat against Prussia in 1870, the third republic was proclaimed, and, excepting the for the Vichy episode during WWII, France stayed a republic from then on.
As you can see, it’s difficult to pinpoint exactly what would be the most appropriate day for celebration. The 1789 revolution is still at the origin of all the subsequent events, so it certainly makes sense to celebrate it. Personnaly, I would have chosen August 4th, when the “declaration of humans and citizens rights” (abolishing priviledges, granting the equality to all citizens, stating that all accused are presumed innocents, and so on), that still has constitutionnal value in France, was voted by the assembly over the storming of a nearly empty prison by a parisian crowd. But I’ve not been asked.
July 14th was established as a national day by the third republic, long after the revolution. However, it had been celebrated for much longer than that, as already mentionned.
Finally, I would add not only that July 14th isn’t “Independance day”, as mentionned by several previous posters, but also that it isn’t “Bastille day”, either. This name is used only in english-speaking countries. In France, it’s called, roughly, “National Day”.
Just to add that the August 4th I mentionned before was also August 4th 1789, three weeks after the storming of the Bastille.
Also, it came to my mind that you could compare picking July 14th to the USA deciding that Independance day would be celebrated on the day of the Boston tea party. A similarily well remembered and symbolic event.
