# Why is Kelly Sadler's statement about John McCain referred to as 'a joke' in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348 "2018-05-17T15:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/41 "2018-05-18T22:07:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m not sure that’s true. Who badmouthed McCain more - Obama or Trump? Disagreeing with someone’s politics is not necessarily badmouthing, though in Trump world it appears to be. > And McCain disagreed with Obama without badmouthing him either, as his famous defense of Obama showed. But that was back when adults ran for president. Trump for sure. I wouldn’t think Obama would badmouth anyone, really, certainly not McCain. They might have disagreed, but Obama was too classy to say something as monumentally stupid as this ‘joke’. I wasn’t really talking about Obama, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/42 "2018-05-18T23:08:59Z")
Step 1: Say something stupid and offensive. Step 2: When called out on it, claim it was just a joke. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/43 "2018-05-19T01:14:51Z")
It’s not at all a joke. But, it is a very cold, but accurate statement. John McCain will not cast another vote in the US Senate. Therefore, his opinion is irrelevant. It is still a very stupid political move from the Trump administration. If McCain dies or chooses to resign soon, then there will be a special election for his seat and the party controlling the seat could change. If McCain stays alive and doesn’t resign, then after approximately June 1, the current Republican governor can appoint a new Senator to serve out the remainder of McCain’s term, expiring in 2022. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/44 "2018-05-19T01:23:33Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > It’s not at all a joke. But, it is a very cold, but accurate statement. John McCain will not cast another vote in the US Senate. Therefore, his opinion is irrelevant. > > It is still a very stupid political move from the Trump administration. If McCain dies or chooses to resign soon, then there will be a special election for his seat and the party controlling the seat could change. If McCain stays alive and doesn’t resign, then after approximately June 1, the current Republican governor can appoint a new Senator to serve out the remainder of McCain’s term, expiring in 2022. It’s not in any way a political move from the Trump administration. Someone leaked what an insensitive staffer said at a closed meeting. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/45 "2018-05-20T01:23:24Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > I don’t think anybody means “joke, haha”, they mean “joke” as in not intended to be taken seriously. > > It’s exactly the same thing that happened when Trump said he likes heroes who aren’t captured. He wasn’t originally being serious, but when challenged on it, Trump didn’t apologize, he doubled down on it. > [@nelliebly](#): > > He was joking? I must have missed something. As I said, it was not a “joke, haha” it was something random he said off the cuff, intended only to voice his displeasure with McCain. At the time he said it, I’m pretty sure he hadn’t _actually_ formed the opinion that being a POW disqualified someone from being a hero. He was not being serious. It was not _a joke_, but he was _originally_ just joking/being sarcastic because he didn’t want to give McCain any credit whatsoever for anything. But Trump being Trump, when challenged on it, he stuck to his guns and claimed sincerity. There’s no way of measuring or proving how much that particular stupid remark (among the multitudes) and his refusal to back down or apologize cost him and his presidency, but I think it’s widely underestimated. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/46 "2018-05-20T01:32:45Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > As I said, it was not a “joke, haha” it was something random he said off the cuff, intended only to voice his displeasure with McCain. At the time he said it, I’m pretty sure he hadn’t _actually_ formed the opinion that being a POW disqualified someone from being a hero. He was not being serious. It was not _a joke_, but he was _originally_ just joking/being sarcastic because he didn’t want to give McCain any credit whatsoever for anything. > > But Trump being Trump, when challenged on it, he stuck to his guns and claimed sincerity. There’s no way of measuring or proving how much that particular stupid remark (among the multitudes) and his refusal to back down or apologize cost him and his presidency, but I think it’s widely underestimated. Among who? The Dems who hate him already? The Pubbies who don’t care WTF he says or does so long as they’re still in charge? Those in between who are dumb or deluded or unengaged enough to believe in nothing more than a snake-oil salesman? I remain pretty much irretrievably skeptical of the intelligence of the masses, especially after the clusterfuck that they’ve plunged the country into. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/47 "2018-05-20T01:52:22Z")
Among those who consider _practically anyone who ever served in the military_ a hero. And among those who consider anyone who would question the hero status of a POW like John McCain to be an idiot. Now, that some might consider him a _useful_ idiot is neither here nor there, and won’t do him or his presidency any good. ---
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/48 "2018-05-20T15:13:02Z")
It was referred to as a joke to try and make it more acceptable to people. But it wasn’t a joke, it was a statement of high probability. The man is dying, so his opposition would have very little meaning a short amount of time. Poor taste… yeah I would agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/49 "2018-05-20T16:33:20Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Among those who consider _practically anyone who ever served in the military_ a hero. I’d say many are to some degree patriots, at least those avoiding prison sentences, involuntarily drafted, or simply trying to escape poor economic prospects being major exceptions. > [@](#): > > And among those who consider anyone who would question the hero status of a POW like John McCain to be an idiot. Anyone who evaded military service and then criticized him solely for having been a POW? And wouldn’t know patriotism if it bit him in the ass? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/50 "2018-05-20T17:08:15Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > I don’t think anybody means “joke, haha”, they mean “joke” as in not intended to be taken seriously. > > It’s exactly the same thing that happened when Trump said he likes heroes who aren’t captured. He wasn’t originally being serious, but when challenged on it, Trump didn’t apologize, he doubled down on it. Well, that was something I did hear, and it didn’t seem like a joke to me. It seems like Trump is the epitome of someone who engages his mouth before he engages his mind. I’m not even sure if the word “intent” is applicable much of what he says other than “what can I say right now that in whatever twisted way makes me look better than the other guy, whether it’s true or not”. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/51 "2018-05-20T17:16:45Z")
Again, it wasn’t “a joke” but he was (originally) “joking”, by which I mean he was not being serious and talking out his ass, exactly like you just said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/52 "2018-05-20T17:27:32Z")
I don’t think that’s the way most people use the term “joking”, but it’s probably not worth arguing about. It’s not the same thing as what the OP is about anyway, because no one in this thread heard the person say it. I don’t think we even know who the person was, do we? It was said in private, and then leaked to the press. How anyone can be certain about the intent of the speaker is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/53 "2018-05-22T02:52:46Z")
Jokes and Joking are social phenomena. Humor is about the relationship between people. You can’t make it anything else. It’s a joke if you like someone: it’s not funny if you don’t. It’s ridiculous to suggest that something is “funny” or “not funny” based on it’s objective content. Not just ridiculous: amazingly ignorant and offensively self-important. As if “my” take on if something is funny says anything about anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348/54 "2018-05-22T11:33:23Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Trump for sure. I wouldn’t think Obama would badmouth anyone, really, certainly not McCain. They might have disagreed, but Obama was too classy to say something as monumentally stupid as this ‘joke’. > > I wasn’t really talking about Obama, though. It’s not entirely _devoid_ of irony for those who literally did badmouth McCain, the number of which isn’t really that high anyway and who stopped at perhaps calling him a fake maverick for bringing in Palin. It would be a similar level of irony if I called someone “sort of a jerk” and then got offended if someone else called him a “fucking asshole”, i.e. a tiny bit ironic, but not much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-kelly-sadlers-statement-about-john-mccain-referred-to-as-a-joke-in-the-us/814348.md?page=2)