# Why is liberalism such a bad thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481 "2017-01-29T03:21:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/121 "2017-02-01T15:13:56Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > These are the main points why liberalism is bad. Note that these are often connected to each other, and intermingle. > […] > 4. Liberals have an irresistible urge to meddle in the lives of other people. Witness things like seatbelt laws, helmet laws, and child seat laws. Another example is barbers. You wouldn’t think that cutting somebody’s hair would be all that difficult. But in every US state, barbers must be licensed. Now, if a simple license were all that was required, that wouldn’t be so bad. But in many states, it takes **over 1,000 hours of training** to get that license! If all 50 states require this you can’t use it as a criticism of liberalism, because we know that not all 50 states are liberal. Also, regarding your first few examples, not sure why \*saving \*the lives of other people, especially children who cannot advocate for themselves, is “meddling.” Also, traffic deaths have a social and economic cost beyond the person who got himself killed, so this is not just a matter of rights of individual self-determination. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/122 "2017-02-03T02:34:38Z")
One rather basic thing that anyone (sane and honest) should recognize rapidly from discussions such as this, is that asking OPPONENTS of something (such as liberalism) what they are about, wont inform you about the SUBJECT you are investigating. Asking Anti-Liberals, what the trouble with Liberalism or Liberals are, is as useful as asking an Anti-Semite what makes Jews problematic, or asking an Anti-theist what’s wrong with faithful believers. This conundrum is made even worse for you, because the actual TRUE ideals and beliefs of “liberals” and of “conservatives” have changed dramatically over the years. On top of that, you have the problem that there really ARE a lot of people who want to USE the Anti-liberals for their own ends. Those people energetically encourage the Anti-liberals, not only to believe all manner of false things about liberalism, but further, to expand on those false beliefs, so that they can be LINKED to things that the manipulators want. More than anything else these days, the American people are being prompted to oppose or support politicians, not for what those politicians actually intend to do, bit rather for what the manipulators can persuade them to think the politician or their opponents are LINKED TO. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/123 "2017-02-03T04:21:19Z")
> [@Kahunahh](#): > > In fact this is, from brief lurking, one of the more moderate liberal forums I’ve read. Far more willing to decry the BS on the left despite supporting their ideology. Something something high IQs or something? Dunno why but it’s better than the usual hyper-polarized discussion I usually see. It’s because most people here take the board slogan seriously, and require logic, evidence and effective argument for proof of points. Doesn’t mean it always happens, especially since Trump’s election. There’s been an influx of suddenly emboldened Trumpers since then, whose purpose here seems to be to decrease the signal-to-noise ratio and/or to air their unreasoning hatred of anyone not of their ilk, most especially those evil liberals. There’s a word I’m not supposed to use here that fairly effectively describes it, so I won’t. But not using it doesn’t change the reality. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/124 "2017-02-03T07:02:54Z")
The problem with modern liberalism is the same that occurs in every successful institution or movement as it accumulates power and influence. It attracts psychopaths who exploit the movement for personal gain. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/125 "2017-02-03T10:15:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The problem with modern liberalism is the same that occurs in every successful institution or movement as it accumulates power and influence. It attracts psychopaths who exploit the movement for personal gain. This is nothing new, for this ideology or any other. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/126 "2017-02-03T17:58:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is nothing new, for this ideology or any other. I know. Which is why I said every successful institution or movement. Once they move from marginal to successful they become an avenue to power that the unscrupulous and immoral will exploit. And this is one reason why I make a distinction between modern and classical liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/127 "2017-02-03T18:05:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I know. Which is why I said every successful institution or movement. Once they move from marginal to successful they become an avenue to power that the unscrupulous and immoral will exploit. Sure – there are immoral and unscrupulous people among all political ideologies. I don’t see how this is relevant – I don’t think anyone is saying their preferred ideology has no assholes among them. > [@](#): > > And this is one reason why I make a distinction between modern and classical liberalism. I don’t follow – are you saying that there is, in fact, a political ideology with no unscrupulous assholes? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/128 "2017-02-03T18:21:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure – there are immoral and unscrupulous people among all political ideologies. I don’t see how this is relevant – I don’t think anyone is saying their preferred ideology has no assholes among them. > > I don’t follow – are you saying that there is, in fact, a political ideology with no unscrupulous assholes? No. It’s just interesting to see the difference in caliber of thinking between those who were prominent in the Age of Enlightenment and the modern gender studies professor. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/129 "2017-02-03T19:02:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No. It’s just interesting to see the difference in caliber of thinking between those who were prominent in the Age of Enlightenment and the modern gender studies professor. Those prominent ones are prominent for a reason – undoubtedly there were a myriad of silly people back then who, for obvious reasons, did not become prominent. That’s not an indictment of liberalism in any way, since every ideology (at least the ones made up of humans) will have more small thinkers than big thinkers. Not that I necessarily have any problem with gender studies professors. ---
**Author:** ![Dana\_Scully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Dana\_Scully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dana_Scully)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481/130 "2017-02-05T17:33:04Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > I’ve been on this board now for nearly a third of my life, and have seen national governments come and go, and the gloating and hand-wringing that accompanies it. > > And over those years, I’ve witnessed a growing discontent with ‘liberals’ and the attitudes and policies they espouse. > > But no-one has ever actually elucidated what the hell is wrong with liberalism. What are the bad things that liberals have done or have advocated? > > Why are libs the boogey-man under the conservative’s beds? It isn’t. Some conservative crazies (not the normal, moderate ones) just need someone to beat up on and blame for whatever they’ve got a burr under their saddle for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-liberalism-such-a-bad-thing/778481.md?page=6)