# Why is lisping stereotypically associated with gays? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 24, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388 "2005-08-24T04:00:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![souroranges](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3e96dc/32.png) [@souroranges](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/souroranges)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388/1 "2005-08-24T04:00:17Z")
[What Sa-illy Cecil Said](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950526.html) Some random comments: 1.) I have NEVER encountered a lesbian with a lisp… (or a straight girl for that manner, so what do i know?) 2.)I don’t really notice a lisp in some of my gay friends, but they do seem to sound more high-pitched, happy, or more “upbeat”. Whether this is true or not, i cannot say. Once again, this is just my observation. 3.) Just wondering: Is there a ratio of races between straight to gay people. (I.E. are more “whites” gay than “blacks” or “asian”, etc. I might start another thread on that particular question. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388/2 "2005-08-24T04:49:19Z")
> [@souroranges](#): > > 1.) I have NEVER encountered a lesbian with a lisp… (or a straight girl for that manner, so what do i know?) Well, the ‘lisp’ is considered an effeminate characteristic, and the stereotype is that gay men are often effeminate, so you wouldn’t expect that of a lesbian. I think that also answers your second point. > [@](#): > > 3.) Just wondering: Is there a ratio of races between straight to gay people. (I.E. are more “whites” gay than “blacks” or “asian”, etc. I might start another thread on that particular question. I’ve never heard one, but I think it’d be really hard to get a good figure on that. Between different cultural standards, self-identification and stuff like that… ---
**Author:** ![souroranges](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3e96dc/32.png) [@souroranges](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/souroranges)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388/3 "2005-08-24T05:21:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Well, the ‘lisp’ is considered an effeminate characteristic, and the stereotype is that gay men are often effeminate, so you wouldn’t expect that of a lesbian. I think that also answers your second point. I see your point. So, does this apply that some lesbians have masculine characteristics such as a deeper voice? IMHO, these traits are not as apparent as the male counterpart. Older women’s voices deepen naturally as they age. Does this mean that Queen Elizabeth is a fruitcake? Of course not In today’s society, younger women are consistently wearing more and more of “men’s” clothes and are acting more “macho”/independent than ever. Likewise, men are starting to overcome their gender roles based on society. Some men are becoming more sensitive, more open, more caring, etc. Also, metrosexuals are probably perceived to some as gays. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388/4 "2005-08-24T06:03:16Z")
> [@souroranges](#): > > I see your point. So, does this apply that some lesbians have masculine characteristics such as a deeper voice? According to stereotypes? I don’t know. Certainly there are stereotypes about lesbians being more masculine, but I’m not sure I’ve heard that particular one. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388/5 "2005-08-24T07:33:55Z")
Lisping is associated with baby talk, something we forgive in girls or young women, but think absurd in men and older women. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388/6 "2005-08-31T14:47:58Z")
Just an anecdotal comment: I remember a class I took where a man and a woman representing [an organization similar to LAMBDA](http://www.ualberta.ca/~cbidwell/cmb/lambda.htm). ( I thought it was F.L.A.G., but that doesn’t seem to exist!?!) One of my classmates-- a backward-baseball-cap-wearin’-frat-boy-- went ballistic. He had no problem with the woman, a lesbian, but he was very angry, aggressive, and belligerent with the gay man. Eventually, he yelled, “Why do you have to talk like that?” Then he stormed out of the room. Those left behind started a discussion and universally agreed that the man did not speak with any affectation. ( He even agreed to a verse of she sells sea shells…) As with other stereotypes, selective perception has a greater impact than actual mannerisms. Heterosexual men avoid certain mannerisms and project them onto those who don’t act straight enough. I guess my point is that the stereotype is just a convienient shorthand. Less apparent in the general population than in movies and sit-coms where a character can be developed with single line. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388/7 "2005-08-31T15:48:36Z")
For what it’s worth, in Europe in the late 20’s and early 30’s, there was something of a fad in German and Austrian operetta for the soubrette (technical theatrical term for the heroine’s zany best friend) to lisp; it actually becomes a plot point in several of them. In _The Duchess of Chicago_ (1928) it takes a bitter turn, with an exchange along the following lines: She: I have a little birth defect; you may have notithed; I lithp. He: Oh, I also have a little birth defect; you may have noticed; I’m a little – a little – Israe-little. ;j (I imagine it was that joke as much as the use of jazz that got _The Duchess of Chicago_ put on the Nazis’ official “degenerate art” list.) ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-lisping-stereotypically-associated-with-gays/318388/8 "2005-09-01T19:58:27Z")
> [@SiXSwordS](#): > > ( I thought it was F.L.A.G., but that doesn’t seem to exist!?!) You may be thinking of PFLAG: [http://www.pflag.org/](http://www.pflag.org/) Powers &8^]