What? You dont thing that link to Susan Blackmores article is a serious scientific answer?
Which premise do you disagree with?
Hell no. Susan Blackmore is full of shit. Someone should tell her that even stupid birds tend to communicate and copy each other.
Hold on, Darwins Finch…
Darwins Finch says:
But you know what, DF? At least your typical human could go look it up at the library or on the internet or on some other resource. Yes, the typical human could figure out 90% of how to land man on the moon and brink him back, fairly easily.
It doesn’t matter that he couldn’t figure it out on his own, because he would have the intelligence enough to go research other resources. Animals can’t even figure out the first step. Conversely, animals are unaware of the moon, except to think it is some light in the night sky.
You know, I am rather tired and I don’t feel like arguing much right now…
But I thank everyone who participated and I will see you tomorroe
Thanks all!
My point is that without access to that extensive body of knowledge, raw intelligence isn’t nearly as impressive. Left to their own devices, that is, without access to libraries, the internet, or anything outside their own abilities, most humans would be stuck (and all humans would be stuck when it comes to anything involving creating complex technologies from scratch). And most humans only know what the moon is because they were taught about it, not because they all independently figured it out.
You are confusing intelligence with knowledge. Humans far and away exceed all other organisms with respect to the latter. But that is as much (if not moreso) the product of being able to write things down or otherwise pass on what they have learned to others as it is raw brain capacity. Just look at how modern historians are so often unable to figure out how ancient cultures accomplished certain tasks, simply because those cultures didn’t write down their methods. If intelligence alone were all that mattered in terms of solving problems, there should be no such thing as a “lost art”.
DF, I rather agree with you on certain points. What I disagree with is I believe intelligence tends to create communications and records. You seem to believe that communications and records create intelligence…
You seem to misunderstand what he is saying. Communications and records permit technology, which is a lot of what you seem to be concerned with.
Just as an aside, and I don’t want this to become a part of this original thread question:
What is considered to be the most intelligent animal next to man?
No, I don’t give a hang about “technology”. I’m trying to figure out why man is so much more intelligent than the next most intelligent animal. There’s too wide of a gap to be explained by chance.
I think that is closer to what I am saying than what Darwins Finch is saying. DF is saying that knowledge is something that makes humans unique. You need intelligence to search for knowledge, but without knowledge we wouldnt be what we are. Perfectly true.
I, however, am saying that communications and records have lead to evolution of bigger brains through “memetic driving”. I know you dont agree or cant get your head around it, but this is GQ, not GD.
The gap only seems wide to you because you are coming at the question from an extremely narrow perspective. As I pointed out before, if you are look at it on the scale of sponges to humans, chimps are going to be very close to us in intelligence. You have almost entirely focused on the technological results generated by human culture, not on intelligence per se.
Moonight, if you want a scientific answer, you have to approach the subject with a scientific frame of mind.
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To my knowledge, a definition of intelligence is not readily agreed upon in the scientific community. That is presumption #1.
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Presumption #2 is that human beings are more intelligent than other animals. That has not been established and it is not as simple as you have made it out to be.
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You cannot measure the intelligence of other animals by whether or not they apply “intelligence” in the same ways that human beings do – and vice versa.
The answer to your question is Mu.
Zoe, then according to the “possibilities” in your post, a sponge is possibly more intelligent than a human. Is that what you believe?
Does Zoe believe that sponges are possible more intelligent than humans?
Bonobos.
Its really about time you knocked it off Moonlight. You’ve had your question answered by one of the most knowledgeable posters on the subject of evolution and it seems you’re just looking to debate, not learn. Why don’t you take it to Great Debates and end it here?
X-Ray, unless your name is Ed Zotti, its not up you to decide for me to “knock it off”. Glad to see that you have such a high opinion of yourself that you can dictate to fellow posters.
BTW, I asked a direct question on this thread, and you have done nothing but throw smoke in the air, trying to distract from the original question. I asked a factual question in the OP, and you’ve done nothing but try to sidetrack this thread.
I wasn’t deciding anything for you. I was making a suggestion so you didn’t continue to come off as a jackass.
Huh? I’ve been trying to sidetrack the thread? Whatever. Good luck here on the Straight Dope.
Anybody need a Big Straw Man?
The problem, which you are failing to grasp here, is that your factual question is logically flawed. The gap in “intelligence” (for which there is no objective standard) between humans and the next most “intelligent” animal is not significantly larger than the “intelligence” gap between any other animals when you consider kingdom Animalia as a whole. Looking at animals from Poriferans to Homo sapiens, humans aren’t that much smarter than apes, who can use tools and (AFAIK) language. The only difference between the tool use of apes and the tool use of humans is the scale of application and the ability to preserve the knowledge of tool use to allow for more complex applications, to which the lack of written language is probably the only barrier.
X-Ray, I’ve been looking at your posts on this thread. Apparently you havent contributed a damn thing towards the answer, but you’ve acted like some sort of power mad “moderator wannabe”.
Like I said before, X-Ray, All I did was ask a factual question in General Questions. And then you come in like you got a stick up your ass, calling me a “guest” like you’re better than me. This aint your fricking board, get it? You come on my thread and don’t contribute a damn thing but you only critisize me for asking the damn question. You aint Ed Zotti or a moderator, you’re just a fricking member, so quit acting like you can decide what goes on on this board. Dammit I am just curious about this matter and I don’t need dickheads like you trying to sidetrack the discussion.