# Why is Marvel Turning All Its Superheroes Into Women? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374 "2016-09-19T19:53:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/61 "2016-09-21T14:08:30Z")
Many people have stated here that they think Marvel is doing this diversity for business reasons. While there is some truth to that, it doesn’t take away from the other truth: The writers and editors are “true believers” (used an old Stan Lee phrase for those of you old enough) in the progressive liberal movement. They truly want to preach their beliefs and think that if you disagree you’re jerks and they don’t need you. And its not just making men heroes into women, or white heroes into black heroes. They’ve done that before. Rhodey took over for Stark, The Geen lantern Corp. The difference is Marvel is dealing now with beliefs. Illegal immigrants are good/people who oppose it are bigots and often murderers. I’ve yet to find a conservative practicing evangelical christian superhero in a Marvel book, yet I can find Muslims. Since I’ve not read a Marvel in about 2 years, if anyone can name me one, please do so. Marvel doesn’t want me and I’d be stupid to give a dime to such an organization. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/62 "2016-09-21T14:59:07Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > \Huh? Is that a racial joke? I thought the proliferation of Black Lightning knockoffs started with confusion at DC about whether the company or the original writer owned Black Lightning.\ I don’t know where it started or if it’s a racial joke, only that I’ve seen it referenced in quite a few different comics. If my memory isn’t faulty one of the DC animated series riffed on it as well, Black Lightning was in that episode. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/63 "2016-09-21T15:06:55Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > Many people have stated here that they think Marvel is doing this diversity for business reasons. While there is some truth to that, it doesn’t take away from the other truth: The writers and editors are “true believers” (used an old Stan Lee phrase for those of you old enough) in the progressive liberal movement. They truly want to preach their beliefs and think that if you disagree you’re jerks and they don’t need you. And its not just making men heroes into women, or white heroes into black heroes. They’ve done that before. Rhodey took over for Stark, The Geen lantern Corp. The difference is Marvel is dealing now with beliefs. Illegal immigrants are good/people who oppose it are bigots and often murderers. I’ve yet to find a conservative practicing evangelical christian superhero in a Marvel book, yet I can find Muslims. Since I’ve not read a Marvel in about 2 years, if anyone can name me one, please do so. Marvel doesn’t want me and I’d be stupid to give a dime to such an organization. I don’t understand what you’re saying. The first part of your post reads like you’re in favor of diversity and changes, then you end with Marvel doesn’t want you? As an aside I’ve seen several devoutly christian from both of the big companies. Not fire & brimstone types maybe but they weren’t crapped on either. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/64 "2016-09-21T15:10:53Z")
Protestant is treated as the default. Catholic and Orthodox are the two Christian branches which are most likely to be mentioned by name, but any time a character’s religion is named it is always treated as a peculiarity of the character, something as peculiar to them as having blue fur and a tail, being blind (to mention two of the Catholics), being British (which sometimes gets treated as a quaint quality in and of itself) or walking through walls. ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/65 "2016-09-21T15:30:30Z")
I do not believe protestant is the default in this country anymore. And while I knew of nightcrawler (wasn’t he dead?) and Daredevil being Catholic I’m looking for a hero that is an evangelical protestant. As to whether I support what Marvel is doing, I don’t. I read books to be entertained, not to be preached to. I know there were probably some books years ago that you can point to that were preachy (Green Lantern #76, Spiderman #96, I think), but they generally presented one side without making the other side worse than Satan. Marvel is a business. They have a perfect right to publish what they want. I have the right to express my dislike and my right not to give them my business. I’m not fooling myself and I realize which way the wind is blowing in our culture today. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/66 "2016-09-21T15:33:40Z")
You apparently haven’t read a lot of X-Men, if you think there was nobody “making the other side worse than Satan”. And while Protestant may not be “the default for the country” whatever that means (do you mean the majority? The largest individual group?), it is still treated as the default by media, including comics. It is also frequently treated as a single block, without mention of specific denominations, both in comics and in other media. ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/67 "2016-09-21T16:21:02Z")
I’ve read X-Men. My collection goes back to X-Men #1. Read the Graphic novel “God Loves Man Kills”. Fire and Brimstone preacher advocates eliminating mutants. Turns out he"s not a real preacher, just using their methods. Nearly every time they portray a fire and brimstone or evangelical, Marvel is always careful to make sure you know that THIS bad guy is the exception, but they never show the non-exception. Read an interview decades ago with one of the best writers of all time, John Byrne. Although he seemed to indicate he wasn’t that religious, he tried to write to entertain and even educate without offending. He noted that many writers didn’t seem to realize that a lot of middle america still had traditional values, stilled prayed before eating. When he wrote he tried to respect their values too. I know many probably think I’m against diversity, yet I bought every Milestone comic that came out back in "93. Why? Because they were well written, well drawn and told stories that needed to be told without demonizing the other side. I didn’t always agree with everything written, but the writers attitude wasn’t one of in your face anger and hatred if you disagree. Lot of that going around. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/68 "2016-09-21T16:25:05Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > Many people have stated here that they think Marvel is doing this diversity for business reasons. While there is some truth to that, it doesn’t take away from the other truth: The writers and editors are “true believers” (used an old Stan Lee phrase for those of you old enough) in the progressive liberal movement. They truly want to preach their beliefs and think that if you disagree you’re jerks and they don’t need you. And its not just making men heroes into women, or white heroes into black heroes. They’ve done that before. Rhodey took over for Stark, The Geen lantern Corp. The difference is Marvel is dealing now with beliefs. Illegal immigrants are good/people who oppose it are bigots and often murderers. I’ve yet to find a conservative practicing evangelical christian superhero in a Marvel book, yet I can find Muslims. Since I’ve not read a Marvel in about 2 years, if anyone can name me one, please do so. Marvel doesn’t want me and I’d be stupid to give a dime to such an organization. Since you seem to be blaming Marvel, despite name-dropping the GLC, please give me some examples of Marvel presenting illegal immigration as “good”, and examples of people who oppose it that are bigots and/or murderers. Particularly the latter, if you please. Because I actually do read Marvel books, and while I don’t read them _all_, what you are accusing them of seems to be a straw man made of incendiary fluff. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/69 "2016-09-21T16:43:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The hammer says right on it that whoever is worthy who holds the hammer will have the power of Thor. So if a worthy woman picks it up… > > And if you want to go back to the actual Norse myths (which Marvel has always played fast and loose with) both Loki and Odin spent time as women. Thor never did, but the mythos does hold out the possibility of a sex-change. [Loki seduced a horse.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki#Gylfaginning) [And then gave birth to another horse. Which Odin rides.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipnir) I’m just sayin’. Comics have a ways to go before they’re going to catch up to mythology on the weird-o-meter. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/70 "2016-09-21T17:02:38Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Your musician analogy doesn’t really hold water, “Bob Dylan” is a real person’s known name, which would be analogous to “Steve Rogers.” No one else is taking the name Steve Rogers, they’re taking “Captain America” which is more of a title. Yeah, it’s pretty routine for bands that aren’t named for a single person to radically change members, although it can happen that a band wants to tour under the name of a member who’s no longer in it, like the J. Geils Band. There are some well-known bands that don’t have any original members at this point, but still keep the name - The Hollies, Blackfoot, Yes, Heart, The little River Band, The Misfits, Thin Lizzy, and GWAR. And there are lots of bands that have had multiple members try to claim the name like Survivor, Pink Floyd, and The Misfits. I actually think that in a world with superheros you’d have a lot of name confusion, with various people wanting to take a popular name like ‘Captain America’, multiple spider-style heroes wanting to be ‘Spider Man’, and sometimes heroes and villains both wanting the same name. I suspect comic books don’t have a conflict between Tony Stark and guy with magnetic powers over who gets to be Iron Man because it’s too confusing to their branding. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/71 "2016-09-21T17:17:09Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > Many people have stated here that they think Marvel is doing this diversity for business reasons. While there is some truth to that, it doesn’t take away from the other truth: The writers and editors are “true believers” (used an old Stan Lee phrase for those of you old enough) in the progressive liberal movement. They truly want to preach their beliefs and think that if you disagree you’re jerks and they don’t need you. And its not just making men heroes into women, or white heroes into black heroes. They’ve done that before. Rhodey took over for Stark, The Geen lantern Corp. The difference is Marvel is dealing now with beliefs. Illegal immigrants are good/people who oppose it are bigots and often murderers. I’ve yet to find a conservative practicing evangelical christian superhero in a Marvel book, yet I can find Muslims. Since I’ve not read a Marvel in about 2 years, if anyone can name me one, please do so. Marvel doesn’t want me and I’d be stupid to give a dime to such an organization. I doubt you could find any era of Marvel comics history where they weren’t pushing a particular political agenda. It may be hard to recognize this today, because a lot of things they did that were controversial at the time, aren’t controversial today. Not a lot of people argue that we should have stayed out of World War II today, but when Marvel published [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Captainamerica1.jpg), the question of US intervention in another European war was still a controversial topic. Same thing when they started bringing in black heroes like Luke Cage or Black Panther, which were in direct response to the Civil Rights movement. That being said, Marvel hasn’t really taken the position on illegal immigration that you’re ascribing to them, here. There was an issue of the Sam Wilson Captain America book where the Serpent Society was trying to murder a bunch of illegal immigrants, and Sam stopped them. The point of this story was not, “People who oppose illegal immigration are evil bigots,” though. The point of the story was about the over-politicization of American society: Captain America stopping a bunch of half-starved migrants from being slaughtered is taken, in the comic, as Captain America endorsing illegal immigration - which, amusingly enough, is exactly the mistake you’re making with the story now. (It’s also worth noting that Cap’s greatest enemy is also an illegal alien. Red Skull’s been hanging out in the US for years, now, and I’m pretty sure nobody ever issued him a work visa for killing Captain America. 😃 ) I also couldn’t help notice that you contrasted the number of “conservative Evangelical Christians” with the number of “Muslims.” Which is a bit of an unfair comparison: “Muslim” is a hugely broad category, consisting of dozens, if not hundreds, of subgroups. “Conservative Evangelical Christian” is at least three subcategories deep. That being said, I did a Google search on the religious affiliations of super heroes, and found [this](http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html). I can’t vouch for it’s accuracy, but under “Evangelical Protestant superheroes,” it’s got two entries from Marvel: USAgent, and Sabretooth. USAgent’s a good one in this context, because they just brought him in to the Sam Wilson Captain America book, as a guy who disagrees with Sam politically, but is still presented as a good guy. (And, in fairness, is also pretty easily duped into fighting Sam, so it’s not exactly an ideal representation of a conservative hero. But it’s still a lot better than “worse than Satan.”) (Also, Sabertooth is a good guy now, so he’s a legit entry under “Evangelical superheroes.”) ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/72 "2016-09-21T17:37:55Z")
I’m pretty sure the Guthries were some brand of Evangelical Christians. And fairly conservative, despite supporting mutant/gay equality. Of course, most of the Guthries were depowered, and Sam and Paige have been sideline characters so their religion hasn’t really come up in years (that I’ve noticed). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/73 "2016-09-21T17:41:42Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I’m pretty sure the Guthries were some brand of Evangelical Christians. And fairly conservative, despite supporting mutant/gay equality. Of course, most of the Guthries were depowered, and Sam and Paige have been sideline characters so their religion hasn’t really come up in years (that I’ve noticed). Baptist, according to the link I posted. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/74 "2016-09-21T17:53:23Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > I read books to be entertained, not to be preached to. [QUOTE=Vicsage] I’ve yet to find a conservative practicing evangelical christian superhero in a Marvel book [/QUOTE] I just find this amusing. “I don’t want to be preached to! I just want more evangelical preachers preaching!” ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/75 "2016-09-21T18:34:42Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Actually they do. The industry is still overwhelmingly owned and run by white dudes. The quest for diversity is, as always in big business, powered by the quest for more profit. For white dudes. Well, if you want to get pedantic about it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/76 "2016-09-21T19:53:57Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > . . . COMICS! ARE! WEIIIIIIIRD! > > Anyone? Anyone? 😃 . . . That’s for damn sure! > [@](#): > > . . . And you thought Squirrel Girl was stupidly overpowered before. 😃 Squirrel Girl isn’t overpowered. She can talk to squirrels and swing around in trees. She also has a superpower comparable to Karnak’s, from the Inhumans: she can capitalize on the weakness in any opponent or situation. She was the first to offer Galactus a yummy snack! ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/77 "2016-09-21T20:10:08Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Squirrel Girl isn’t overpowered. She can talk to squirrels and swing around in trees. She also has a superpower comparable to Karnak’s, from the Inhumans: she can capitalize on the weakness in any opponent or situation. > > She was the first to offer Galactus a yummy snack! I’m not sure about that. [http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111144181/4779350-auntmay\_0002.jpg](http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111144181/4779350-auntmay_0002.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/78 "2016-09-21T20:30:09Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > I do not believe protestant is the default in this country anymore. And while I knew of nightcrawler (wasn’t he dead?) and Daredevil being Catholic I’m looking for a hero that is an evangelical protestant. As to whether I support what Marvel is doing, I don’t. I read books to be entertained, not to be preached to. I know there were probably some books years ago that you can point to that were preachy (Green Lantern #76, Spiderman #96, I think), but they generally presented one side without making the other side worse than Satan. Marvel is a business. They have a perfect right to publish what they want. I have the right to express my dislike and my right not to give them my business. I’m not fooling myself and I realize which way the wind is blowing in our culture today. You’ve still got [Jack Chick](http://www.chick.com/)! ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/79 "2016-09-21T20:52:10Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Your musician analogy doesn’t really hold water, “Bob Dylan” is a real person’s known name, which would be analogous to “Steve Rogers.” No one else is taking the name Steve Rogers, they’re taking “Captain America” which is more of a title. If you’re looking for a real life analogy to the idea of a Legacy Character, then consider titles like Emperor, King or Pope. They usually have a formal number on the end to tell them apart, but that’s it (and comic fans would long append an informal number to differentiate characters with the same name!). Add in the fact that superheroes might have ‘secret’ identities and it holds up. Or you could even look ISIS commander al-Baghdadi, who a lot of people think is a position not a real name. > > And of course, marketing has a lot to do with it too. It’s a lot easier to sell a new “Captain America” than sell a completely new character. OK, so how about “the king of rock n’ roll” or “the king of pop” or “the chairman of the board”? All titles, but I haven’t seen any claimants step up to fill those shoes after the deaths of (respectively) Elvis, Michael Jackson, or Sinatra (well, except maybe for that cheesy 70s song about Alan Freed, but I’d consider that an anomaly). Nor do I think there will be someone after Springsteen who is called “the Boss.” My point is that in the real world, people tend to try to identify themselves uniquely, not pick up a name for which someone else was known. I understand that comics aren’t the real world, but they supposedly strive for realism. But I do think your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374/80 "2016-09-21T20:53:43Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > You’ve still got [Jack Chick](http://www.chick.com/)! Been a while since we’ve had a good HAW HAW HAW installment, though… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-marvel-turning-all-its-superheroes-into-women/766374.md?page=5)