# Why is Mexico such a dump compared to the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795 "2015-12-08T05:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/41 "2015-12-09T07:55:58Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Just following that up with the above-cited Human Development Index listing, on which Mexico (#71) is in the “high human development” category while South Africa (#118) and India (#135) are both in the “medium” category. Both are well above countries in the “low” category where my definition of “absolute shithole” would top out. [Almost half the population of India does not use toilets.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_India#Sanitation) When people use the word “shithole” to describe India, only the hole is metaphorical. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/42 "2015-12-09T08:50:14Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > [Almost half the population of India does not use toilets.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_India#Sanitation) When people use the word “shithole” to describe India, only the hole is metaphorical. And yet, one can live for months in many parts of India in middle-class communities and never see any human excrement at all. (Except one’s own, natch.) I’m not saying that India doesn’t have many serious problems as a developing nation. I’m just mentioning that India, with all its rural and slum sanitation defects and many other problems, is still closer to a modern developed nation than about one-third of the world’s countries. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/43 "2015-12-09T12:44:32Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > For example, is France that far off economically than Germany, England, Switzerland, or Italy? It varies from by cycles (one being ahead for a while, then another), but roughly, Italy, France and the UK have the same population and GDP, and have been pretty much on par economically for the last 40 years or so. If you look at the wikipedia GDP page, for instance, you will notice that the rankings of these countries are so close that different sources give a different order. By capita, Italy is more significantly behind at the moment, but it’s a relatively recent change. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/44 "2015-12-09T12:58:51Z")
I think that was the point. Most European countries, excepting the ex-communist ones who are catching up fast, are at pretty similar standards of living. This does not apply to the North American Continent with wide differences between Mexico and the USA. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/45 "2015-12-09T13:02:55Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I think that was the point. Most European countries, excepting the ex-communist ones who are catching up fast, are at pretty similar standards of living. This does not apply to the North American Continent with wide differences between Mexico and the USA. That’s a pretty big exception there. In Europe, like in Asia or Africa or Latin America, countries tend to be similar…when you lump similar countries together. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/46 "2015-12-09T14:20:32Z")
> [@theR](#): > > Somewhere between 80-90% of Mexicans are Catholic while Protestants and Evangelicals are only about 5-10% depending on who you count beyond Protestants. So, even if there is such a thing as a Protestant work ethic, I doubt Mexico has it. I thought it was pretty obvious I was talking about the US. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/47 "2015-12-09T15:07:37Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I think that was the point. Most European countries, excepting the ex-communist ones who are catching up fast, are at pretty similar standards of living. This does not apply to the North American Continent with wide differences between Mexico and the USA. So all the countries in Europe are pretty much the same, except the ones that aren’t. That applies to North America as well. ETA: Not all the ex-communist countries are “catching up fast”. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/48 "2015-12-09T15:30:26Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That’s a pretty big exception there. > > In Europe, like in Asia or Africa or Latin America, countries tend to be similar…when you lump similar countries together. Agreed. GDP per capita in much of the Balkans is at or below Mexico’s. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/49 "2015-12-09T18:47:13Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > So which side can you drink the tap water on? Relative to other “first world” countries, tap water in the US is _terrible_. Relative to Mexico, Texan tap water is probably okay. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/50 "2015-12-09T19:53:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Relative to other “first world” countries, tap water in the US is _terrible_. Got a cite for that? :dubious: > **[Drinking water quality in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_water_quality_in_the_United_States)** > > Drinking water quality in the United States is generally safe. In 2016, over 90 percent of the nation's community water systems were in compliance with all published U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA) standards. Over 286 million Americans get their tap water from a community water system. Eight percent of the community water systems—large municipal water systems—provide water to 82 percent of the US population. The Safe Drinking Water Act requires the US EPA to set standards for Despi... > **[Infographic reveals countries with safe drinking water](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2787962/infographic-reveals-countries-world-safe-drinking-water.html)** > > Drinking water can be harmful to holidaymakers who have not built up a tolerance to it as locals have, so visitors (particularly those with sensitive systems) should be cautious.  Unless you are comparing taste?😕 ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/51 "2015-12-09T20:02:59Z")
> [@theR](#): > > Somewhere between 80-90% of Mexicans are Catholic while Protestants and Evangelicals are only about 5-10% depending on who you count beyond Protestants. So, even if there is such a thing as a Protestant work ethic, I doubt Mexico has it. In contrary to the stereotypes Americans have of us, we are known to be very hard workers. We just play harder than you do. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/52 "2015-12-09T20:24:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Got a cite for that? US standards for [microbial](http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/ndwc/articles/ot/sp03/Table5_A.pdf) and [pesticide](http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/ndwc/articles/ot/sp03/Table3_A.pdf) contamination are relatively low. Also, the federal system tends to create substantial disparities in water quality across the US, as municipal/local water systems may have minimal monitoring (as is sort of noted in your own cite). Put it this way: when there is a boil water alert in the UK, it’s [national news](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-33816989). There is a boil water alert somewhere in the US (particularly in the South, ISTM) practically every day. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/53 "2015-12-09T20:25:07Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I think that was the point. Most European countries, excepting the ex-communist ones who are catching up fast, are at pretty similar standards of living. This does not apply to the North American Continent with wide differences between Mexico and the USA. Thats what I’m meaning. iI one drove from Denmark to Italy and visited all the countries in between, I dont think you would see the difference as much as if one drove into Mexico from Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/54 "2015-12-09T20:26:41Z")
Well, duh. You picked a route between three (or five, depending on your exact route) wealthy countries. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/55 "2015-12-09T20:53:38Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > In contrary to the stereotypes Americans have of us, we are known to be very hard workers. We just play harder than you do. I wasn’t trying to say Mexicans don’t work hard, I was trying to say Mexican work ethic has nothing to do with being Protestant since most Mexicans are Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/56 "2015-12-09T21:35:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, duh. You picked a route between three (or five, depending on your exact route) wealthy countries. Exactly. What if you drove from Austria to Greece? If we understand the historical reasons why ex-Warsaw Pact countries are lagging behind western Europe, and why ex-Ottoman Empire countries lag behind western Europe, then we can have some ideas about why Mexico lags behind the US. Mexico is well ahead of many European countries, like Serbia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, and Albania. Yes, they’re all ex-communist, have a history of conflict, and so on. That’s the point. Mexico has it’s own history of colonization and Mexico is well ahead of China in per-capita GDP. It is above the world average in per-capita GDP. It’s a medium rank country, not really poor. Why do you think Guatemalans are trying to sneak into Mexico? If you really want to see a radical change when you cross the border, try Haiti and the Dominican Republic. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/57 "2015-12-09T23:30:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > There are a few more countries in North America than just the three you refer to. Um… what? What other countries are in **North** America? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/58 "2015-12-09T23:39:07Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Um… what? What other countries are in **North** America? Many consider Central America to be part of North America, as they are part of the same continent. 23 nations overall. > **[List of sovereign states and dependent territories in North America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_North_America)** > > The following is a list of sovereign countries and dependent territories in North America, a continent that covers the landmass north of the Colombia-Panama border as well as the islands of the Caribbean. > All of the states listed here are member states of the United Nations. > This section contains areas that are not sovereign states nor integral parts of the sovereign states listed above. These include dependent territories and integral areas of primarily non-North American states. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/59 "2015-12-10T00:00:54Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Um… what? What other countries are in **North** America? Look at a globe. Do you see that big ol’ chunk of land known as “South America”? That big ol’ chunk of land north of it is another continent. That’s the one that’s called “North America”. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795/60 "2015-12-10T02:24:58Z")
**Why is Mexico such a dump?** Due primarily to the cruel tyranny of El Guapo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-mexico-such-a-dump-compared-to-the-usa/739795.md?page=4)