# Why is Michael Jackson so famous? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 25, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824 "2011-06-25T15:15:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cara\_mel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@Cara\_mel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cara_mel)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/41 "2011-06-27T11:09:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The production crew may have made his voice sound better than it was, though knowing how he sang when he was a kid makes me doubt they had to put too much of a spin on his pipes. monstro, you have gotta hear this - from the sound engineer who worked on a lot of his albums. You can only see the backs of chairs, but Michael’s voice is amazing. You can practically hear him dancing: (sounds better with headphones!) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TK_rX4MjvA4/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AG-AoAC8AGKAgwIABABGGUgVChAMA8=&rs=AOn4CLB9DVWaJl2SQFi1GUJ-b_NvSg_emA "Bruce Swedien talks about recording Michael Jackson, Seattle 1993") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK_rX4MjvA4) ---
**Author:** ![Scougs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scougs/32/3158_2.png) [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/42 "2011-06-27T12:12:13Z")
Way back before the plastic surgery, the weirdness, the kids with dodgy parentage and dodgier names, the sex abuse scandals, even before the overblown videos and outrageous costumes, there was actually a rather attractive young man who could really sing, and really sell a song. Without even dancing. I give you [She’s Out of My Life.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DQJPL9Yuq0) Must be watched to the very end. ---
**Author:** ![SeamusMcCool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SeamusMcCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusMcCool)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/43 "2011-06-27T17:56:30Z")
> [@CheeseDonkey](#): > > Sometimes I think with guys like Michael Jackson and even Vincent Van Gogh, people are more into the people behind the product rather than the product itself. Which is why, for example, Britney Spears stayed in the limelight when she wasn’t doing much musically in the mid-2000s. > > One theory I have about the popularity of guys like Kurt Cobain, Michael Jackson, Bob Marley, Elvis Presley, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon and so forth is people aren’t so much attracted to what they _did_ first (ie, make music [that is, they don’t become fond of these people’s music first, then fond of the people themselves]), they are attracted to what these people _were_–crackheads, tragic life stories, early deaths, nutcases, et cetera, and by association they become fans of their product. > > If you notice, most of the really huge “legends,” “gods,” et cetera in modern music history died early, tragic deaths. > > So, in short, so many of these musicians with loyal, fanatic bases that exist long after they die had great stories, not great music. > > One more “if you notice:” If you notice, for example, before Michael Jackson died, he was the butt of just about every other joke, everyone laughed at him and it seems no one took him seriously. And now he is revered as a musical god, a musical genius, someone never to be mocked or ridiculed because his inherent greatness is just so incredibly great. Music and music history is subjective, but before you graduate to making an opinion, know what the hell you are talking about first. You are clueless about music, performance art (dance in this case) and musical history. Sorry if it cuts deep man, but you’re like somebody asking a photography forum for pros about depth of field and you don’t even know how to load film. I don’t even care for some of the artists used in your example and I have to say you couldn’t be more wrong about their place in popular western music before they died. Get thee to wikipedia or something man…educate yourself. You’re clueless on this subject. Not even worth trying to debate your points. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/44 "2011-06-27T18:07:37Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > All of the other male pop singers I remember from that era - Bruce Springsteen, Prince, Sting, Phil Collins, Bryan Adams, Huey Lewis - had deep, masculine, husky voices. > [@RickJay](#): > > PRINCE had a deep, masculine voice? I was going to pick on Sting. Have you TRIED to sing along to “Roxanne”? ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/45 "2011-06-27T18:20:30Z")
Some of his music that is almost 40 years old, but I would put it up against anything that is on the air right now. MJ’s music touched people of all races and ages. “I’ll Be There” and “Man in the Mirror” are two notables. MJ’s brought people back to the dance floor in the post-disco era. fercrissake…Kevin Smith used _“ABC”_ in Clerks II. THAT should tell you something. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/46 "2011-06-27T18:22:58Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I was going to pick on Sting. Have you TRIED to sing along to “Roxanne”? Not without smacking myself in the nads first…😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/47 "2011-06-27T18:26:11Z")
The oldies station I sometimes listen to had an MJ weekend. They played one of his songs once every 15 minutes or every half an hour. I don’t really have anything to add to what I said above but this: Jesus, I didn’t realize that man had that many hits. Like I said, you may not like him, but in terms of influence upon popular culture of the past 60 years he’s up there with the Beatles and Elvis. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/48 "2011-06-27T20:28:29Z")
> [@CheeseDonkey](#): > > Sometimes I think with guys like Michael Jackson and even Vincent Van Gogh, people are more into the people behind the product rather than the product itself. Which is why, for example, Britney Spears stayed in the limelight when she wasn’t doing much musically in the mid-2000s. To some degree, you are correct. There are stars that the public latch onto the personality and are more about that person than necessarily that person’s talent. We call them “celebrities”. That’s what celebrity is - famous for being famous. And you are correct that Michael definitely became a celebrity, and the media hype about him - from his single glove and the fire to his plastic surgery to his troubles with children and accusations about his behavior, the tabloids certainly did their job to feed the cult of celebrity about him. But that is not what drew people to MJ in the first place, and it is not what keeps his legend as a musical performer so strong. > [@](#): > > One theory I have about the popularity of guys like Kurt Cobain, Michael Jackson, Bob Marley, Elvis Presley, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon and so forth is people aren’t so much attracted to what they _did_ first (ie, make music [that is, they don’t become fond of these people’s music first, then fond of the people themselves]), they are attracted to what these people _were_–crackheads, tragic life stories, early deaths, nutcases, et cetera, and by association they become fans of their product. You are just totally wrong. I don’t know anyone who goes out thinking, “Oh man, I so totally want me some crackhead music. I just need some crackhead music.” Each of these personalities became ultra famous because of their musical ability. The tragedies about them may make their fans more sentimental about their music, but that doesn’t build new fans. At best, it gives someone a reason to talk about them and tell new audiences about them, so that the new audience can experience their music. > [@](#): > > One more “if you notice:” If you notice, for example, before Michael Jackson died, he was the butt of just about every other joke, everyone laughed at him and it seems no one took him seriously. And now he is revered as a musical god, a musical genius, someone never to be mocked or ridiculed because his inherent greatness is just so incredibly great. I have not noticed that you can’t mock him or ridicule him. People regard him as a musical god because they have been saying that about him since Thriller and _Beat It_. But people are perhaps toning down the mockery a bit because he’s no longer around to be doing the bad things they disapproved of. It is much easier to appreciate the musical ability of someone who is no longer holding creepy sleepovers with children. > [@Chefguy](#): > > It also didn’t hurt that MJ had Q producing his albums. That man is a true genius. > [@enomaj](#): > > Wow. I didn’t know British Secret Service allowed moonlighting. 😃 I thought you meant this guy: [Q (Star Trek) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(Star_Trek)) > [@cmkeller](#): > > If his appeal was in his songs and music, why weren’t there more like him? You have to remember that Michael defined his style as a child. His voice characteristic was set then. There were rumors that he used hormone injections to maintain his voice. While similar rumors were said about other male pop stars (like Phil Collins), one can believe it about Michael because that would prevent his voice from changing and give him the characteristic high, child-like voice he maintained throughout his life. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/49 "2011-06-27T20:44:21Z")
The straight answer is very simple: he created music that millions of people heard and liked. You could do just about anything and if millions of people around the world like, you will achieve a level of fame. Conversely if you do something that millions of people don’t like, you will become infamous. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/50 "2011-06-27T20:53:20Z")
> [@CheeseDonkey](#): > > And now he is revered as a musical god, a musical genius, someone never to be mocked or ridiculed because his inherent greatness is just so incredibly great. Who says he is never to be ridiculed for the ridiculous shit he did? Specifically. He was a pop music genius. His moonwalk at the Motown 25th Anniversary show was a cultural phenomenon. He had tremendous influence on dance. He was also batshit crazy. What does one have to do with the other? He was famous for the great stuff he did. That’s why. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/51 "2011-06-27T21:28:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > PRINCE had a deep, masculine voice? > [@cmkeller](#): > > Absolutely. :dubious: [Hmm…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNa1YgdbMZk). Actually [damn](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFUHWH5YZTE) [near](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgHYeOA4-rI) [any](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vndmVlx9pI0) [cut](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsUTfZW2kcI) from that very influential album. Not saying Prince always stuck with that higher voice, obviously he had a touch of [range](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucZRore0-EE) as you note. But I wouldn’t vote him in as the poster boy for deep-voiced pop artists ( especially given his little squeals on even that cut ). ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/52 "2011-06-27T22:28:47Z")
Well the reasons why have been well covered by others already. But if you want to see how big Jackson was in his prime, 1984 say, in a small town on the far side of the world seek out the New Zealand movie [Boy](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1560139/). It shows pretty well how big I remember him being when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/53 "2011-06-28T02:51:24Z")
> [@CheeseDonkey](#): > > I guess “brilliance” is in the eye of the beholder. There’s a fine line between brilliant and stupid. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/54 "2011-06-28T21:49:22Z")
Tamerlane, thanks for the links. I guess I’d forgotten just how much Prince liked to use his falsetto. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/55 "2011-06-29T01:37:20Z")
I’m starting to notice an eerie, irritating symmetry: I’m having the same arguments with, and explaining the same esthetics to kids half my age… _that I used to have with people twice my age!_ They “just didn’t/don’t get it”. Get off my lawn, geezers. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/56 "2011-06-29T02:34:00Z")
Infamous is a better word. Funny how many fans have forgotten his pedo charges in the 90’s and early 2000’s. I threw his cd’s away after the original charges were filed. All the other weird behavior did get him press. The surgical mask, his Capt Crunch outfits, the fake nose, Bubbles the monkey, his kids that never appeared in public. Except the baby dangled off a balcony. Press loves a freak show. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/57 "2011-06-29T05:05:45Z")
Who’s “forgotten” his pedo charges? There’s certainly an effort to reflect on the positive influences of his career and the musical legacy, rather than harp on the negative parts of his bizarrity and accusations of sexual misconduct with minors. Especially since he’s dead now and not able to abuse anyone new. But this is the wake of his death and the emotionalism, especially with his early death. But there are plenty of people (especially here) that are well aware of the accusations and totally holding him accountable. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/58 "2011-06-29T07:05:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > If [this is an average dancer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXhy7ZsiR50&feature=fvst) I’d be intrigued to see what you call a great one. Fred Astaire and anybody in the dancing era of movies. What you linked was either great choreography or a serious case of jock itch. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/59 "2011-06-29T15:27:50Z")
> [@CheeseDonkey](#): > > Perhaps his initial fame, but in 30 years when new legions of fanatics cling on to him, I do believe it will be his story that draws them to him first. Damn those people 30 years from now, they have no taste. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824/60 "2011-06-29T15:30:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Fred Astaire and anybody in the dancing era of movies. What you linked was either great choreography or a serious case of jock itch. Fred Astaire has expressed his own appreciation of Michael Jackson’s talent. And I’m pretty sure Astaire’s Singing in the Rain routine was choreographed, i.e., worked out beforehand. Michael had an appreciation for FA as well as Sammy Davis Jr, and the Nicholas Brothers. What I suspect is that you don’t care for that style of dancing which leads you downgrade obvious talent. But here’s more evidence anyway. [Tap](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYQIKpkyd3g) [Pop Locking](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICestGPPbs) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michael-jackson-so-famous/586824.md?page=4)