# Why is Michigan's Upper Peninsula part of Michigan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 16, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525 "2008-03-16T03:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/21 "2008-03-17T19:18:41Z")
If Maryland counts, so should Louisiana (straddles the Mississippi River) and Alaska (Bisected by the Alaska River). ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/22 "2008-03-17T19:21:26Z")
Oh, and the Northwest Angle in Minnesota, too. Like Point Roberts, that one would require you to cross an international boundary to reach it without crossing the separating body of water. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/23 "2008-03-17T19:27:14Z")
[QUOTE=Krokodil] If Maryland counts, so should Louisiana (straddles the Mississippi River) and Alaska (Bisected by the Alaska River). [/QUOTE] Alaska is bisected by the Yukon River; I’d thought it changed names in Alaska. Maybe the contest should be amended to exclude rivers? ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/24 "2008-03-17T19:28:10Z")
Missouri has a weird thing near the bottom east doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/25 "2008-03-17T20:06:53Z")
Of course it was a win for Ohio. If MI had ‘won’ the dispute then I wouldn’t be a native born Ohioan. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/26 "2008-03-17T23:56:15Z")
The two I was thinking of are Virginia, with that but that hangs off Maryland at the mouth of the Bay, and Washington, with Point Roberts. Minnesota would also qualify, but I’m not sure about Kentucky. My criteria excluded rivers as dividers. Should’ve specified- sorry. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/27 "2008-03-18T05:59:33Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] The two I was thinking of are Virginia, with that but that hangs off Maryland at the mouth of the Bay, and Washington, with Point Roberts. Minnesota would also qualify, but I’m not sure about Kentucky. My criteria excluded rivers as dividers. Should’ve specified- sorry. [/QUOTE] But you can leave Kentucky going south into Tennessee, go a bit west, the north back into Kentucky without crossing a river. How strict do you want to be? If you look down the Mississippi River you’ll find various bits that have been split off from their mother states when the river shifted, but you can’t get to them without crossing the river – unless you want to detour way up to Minnesota and back – so those would definitely disqualify. Unless the Corps of Engineers intervenes, that neck will eventually cut through leaving a snippet of land protruding into Missouri that is both Kentucky and Tennessee. That would be odd. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/28 "2008-03-18T13:50:22Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] The two I was thinking of are Virginia, with that but that hangs off Maryland at the mouth of the Bay, and Washington, with Point Roberts. Minnesota would also qualify, but I’m not sure about Kentucky. [/QUOTE] Why not? Kentucky’s is the only true exclave amongst these examples. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/29 "2008-03-18T14:11:35Z")
Having looked at the map, I would agree that KY would be a fourth example of an exclave. ---
**Author:** ![utterlyuseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@utterlyuseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/utterlyuseless)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/30 "2008-03-19T00:07:47Z")
I remember when I took a vacation to Escanaba and they have the movement to make the UP a state of its own called Superior. It’s not viable as a state but it’s something they all talk about ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/31 "2008-03-19T00:27:06Z")
[QUOTE=utterlyuseless] I remember when I took a vacation to Escanaba and they have the movement to make the UP a state of its own called Superior. It’s not viable as a state but it’s something they all talk about [/QUOTE] Hardly “all”. There’s always been a few goofs that think that the UP could be its own state, but the majority realize that there is zero economic base. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/32 "2008-03-19T02:03:59Z")
[QUOTE=Athena] Hardly “all”. There’s always been a few goofs that think that the UP could be its own state, but the majority realize that there is zero economic base. [/QUOTE] Like Wyoming? \ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/33 "2008-03-19T13:19:57Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Like Wyoming? [/QUOTE] Wyoming might be an economic powerhouse by comparison. The population of the Michigan UP seems to be roughly 300,000 (3% of Michigan’s total 10 million), whereas Wyoming has over 500,000. Okay, so maybe they’re about the same. Maybe Wyoming should become Upper Colorado. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/34 "2008-03-19T18:18:13Z")
Since when is a “viable economic base” a prerequisite for statehood? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/35 "2008-03-19T20:26:31Z")
Actually, I’m going to change my mind. The other examples of WA, VA, and MI were drawn that way. The river happened to move in KY’s case. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/36 "2008-03-19T22:03:16Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Since when is a “viable economic base” a prerequisite for statehood? [/QUOTE] If that were the criteria, the entire state of Michigan should have had its statehood revoked about 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/37 "2008-03-19T22:31:23Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] Actually, I’m going to change my mind. The other examples of WA, VA, and MI were drawn that way. The river happened to move in KY’s case. [/QUOTE] That’s debatable, too. The New Madrid quakes which created the physical feature happened in 1811/12. The detailed survey of the border which revealed the bisection of the loop came later, after the [Jackson Purchase](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Purchase) in 1818. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/38 "2008-03-19T22:52:56Z")
BTW, that’s analogous to the Point Roberts situation - they agreed to the 49th parallel to mid-channel without realizing that Point Roberts extended south of it, until they surveyed. From the wiki article on Point Roberts: > [@](#): > > The acceptance of the 49th parallel as the international boundary was concluded without precise knowledge of the effects it would have. Later, as the Boundary Commission was surveying the line, the British government realized that the peninsula of Point Roberts would be an isolated part of the United States. The British Foreign office instructed Captain James Prevost, the British Boundary Commissioner, to inform his American counterpart of the situation and request that Point Roberts be left to Britain, due to the great inconvenience it would be to the United States. If the American Boundary Commission was reluctant, Prevost was instructed to offer “some equivalent compensation by a slight alteration of the Line of Boundary on the Mainland”. It is not known how the American commissioner responded, but obviously Point Roberts remained part of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/39 "2008-03-20T01:37:08Z")
Which brings us back to the reason Ohio and Michigan almost had a “war” over Toledo. At the time that the boundary of the territories was set, an assumption was made about the actual relationship between the various marking landforms used to describe the border. That assumption was wrong, forcing the people in charge of things to interpret the meaning of the border language in light of the actual geographic relationships. Ohio won that interpretation contest. Lucky them… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525/40 "2008-03-20T02:23:19Z")
That sort of thing happened with lots of boundaries. The Northwest Angle came about because they were working from a grossly mistaken conception of the origin of the Mississippi River, and its positional relationship to the Lake of the Woods. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-michigans-upper-peninsula-part-of-michigan/441525.md?page=3)