# Why is murder a civil rights violation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-murder-a-civil-rights-violation/854680 "2020-05-29T15:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-murder-a-civil-rights-violation/854680/41 "2020-05-30T22:24:40Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Do you have a cite showing that the founders meant that the Fifth would bar a subsequent prosecution under federal law if the individual had previously been prosecuted under state law? Let me play devil’s advocate. I’m sure that the founders thought that federal law would be so limited to the functions of the national government that no law would be in violation of both state and federal law. And further, I don’t think the drafters of the 14th Amendment thought it would be so broad either, say, to apply to a state like California that is fully committed to racial equality that the Civil Rights Laws would apply to their police officers arresting a person. But I am a radical conservative, so. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-murder-a-civil-rights-violation/854680/42 "2020-05-31T19:06:12Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I still don’t follow. The LAPD officers were charged were having “willfully deprived [King] of the right preserved and protected by the Constitution of the United States not to be deprived of liberty without due process of law, including the right to be secure in his person and free from the intentional use of unreasonable force by one making an arrest under color of law.” I’ve never really understood how these issues are treated: so I don’t know if it’s an unlawful deprivation of liberty under the 14th Amendment or an unreasonable seizure under the 4th Amendment, but the point is more or less the same: they willfully deprived him of the right not to be subject to unreasonable force during an arrest. That deprivation was the civil rights violation. Again I thank you for the cites. You have shown that I need to do more research on federal civil rights law. I always read that law to require a racial hook to bring it under federal purview. And IIRC, a big thing about the Rodney King case was a statement made by one of the officers (over the radio of all things) about how there were so many black people out that night that it looked like a scene from Gorillas In the Mist or some other horrifically racist comment that provided the hook for a federal prosecution. I find the logic of the decisions that you cite unpersuasive but recognize their controlling authority. The very idea of a “custom” means that the state itself has washed its hands of it by not enacting it into law. The state has no means to enforce a custom because any defense attorney could cite to the lack of a law as reason why this custom cannot be enforced against his client. But again, thank you very much for pointing me against what I stated which is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-murder-a-civil-rights-violation/854680/43 "2020-06-08T16:26:17Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Everyone has sort of touched on it, but murder is not a violation of federal law… Not so. [18 U.S. Code § 1111 - Murder | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1111#:~:text=18%20U.S.%20Code%20%C2%A7,Murder&text=Murder%20is%20the%20unlawful%20killing%20of%20a%20human%20being%20with%20malice%20aforethought.&text=Whoever%20is%20guilty%20of%20murder%20in%20the%20second%20degree%2C%20shall,of%20years%20or%20for%20life). [18 U.S. Code § 1751 - Presidential and Presidential staff assassination, kidnapping, and assault; penalties | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1751) [18 U.S. Code § 1864 - Hazardous or injurious devices on Federal lands | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1864) [18 U.S. Code § 2332a - Use of weapons of mass destruction | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a) [18 U.S. Code § 2332i - Acts of nuclear terrorism | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332i) [18 U.S. Code § 2441 - War crimes | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2441) [18 U.S. Code § 1153 - Offenses committed within Indian country | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1153) [18 U.S. Code § 2262 - Interstate violation of protection order | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2262) Among others. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-murder-a-civil-rights-violation/854680/44 "2020-06-08T17:07:01Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Not so. > > [18 U.S. Code § 1111 - Murder | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1111#:~:text=18%20U.S.%20Code%20%C2%A7,Murder&text=Murder%20is%20the%20unlawful%20killing%20of%20a%20human%20being%20with%20malice%20aforethought.&text=Whoever%20is%20guilty%20of%20murder%20in%20the%20second%20degree%2C%20shall,of%20years%20or%20for%20life). > [18 U.S. Code § 1751 - Presidential and Presidential staff assassination, kidnapping, and assault; penalties | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1751) > [18 U.S. Code § 1864 - Hazardous or injurious devices on Federal lands | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1864) > [18 U.S. Code § 2332a - Use of weapons of mass destruction | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a) > [18 U.S. Code § 2332i - Acts of nuclear terrorism | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332i) > [18 U.S. Code § 2441 - War crimes | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2441) > [18 U.S. Code § 1153 - Offenses committed within Indian country | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1153) > [18 U.S. Code § 2262 - Interstate violation of protection order | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2262) > > Among others. Those are all done under special enumerated circumstances with a federal hook. The garden variety, I kill my wife’s lover is not a federal crime. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-murder-a-civil-rights-violation/854680/45 "2020-06-08T20:19:06Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Those are all done under special enumerated circumstances with a federal hook. The garden variety, I kill my wife’s lover is not a federal crime. Correct, but that’s not what you originally posted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-murder-a-civil-rights-violation/854680.md?page=2)