These threads really make me want to slam my head into a table over and over and over. I’d go through the same old same old here, but its GQ and its way too late for me here.
(1) Please, before anyone else makes any more assertions about “blacks,” genetics, height, trait distribution please do a search on this board on my user name and genetics. You will soon find a wealth of information, including real live citations to real live genetics. You will find that edwino, myself and others have patiently dealt with the genetics issue in re groups quite thorougly, and ad nauseum.
(2) Assertions in re trait distribution should be checked. Ticker your suppostion re trait distribution by race is false. Take advice on point one and learn better. [bgrienspice** please leave off the vulgar misunderstandings of genetics and also take advice point 1.
The summary: no reason to suppose genetic coherence among African Americans, find your explantions in culture and politics, not group biology.
One thing you gotta admit about ol’ Collounsbury: brilliant mind. Yes, a royal smartass Brit but, in light of the way he cuts to the heart of an argument, perhaps we can forgive him this failing.
If anyone has seen Dirk Nowitzki of the Dallas Mavericks play it should dispel any thoughts you may have regarding genetics giving you an advantage in basketball. He’s a 6’11" blond from Germany who’s is the Mav’s leading scorer in just his second year. Yes he’s tall(not “scrappy” lol),but the guy can handle the ball like a guard and hit the 3 pointers from outside. There are a whole bunch of ballplayers coming out of Europe now who don’t have that we can’t compete with blacks attitude.
[sub]This is not the pit.This is not the pit.This is not the pit.This is not the pit.This is not the pit.[/sub]
“Most everything in black peoples lives are unsatisfying, with the exception of sports”.
[sub]This is not the pit.This is not the pit.This is not the pit.This is not the pit.This is not the pit.[/sub]
If I keep reminding myself, I’ll be OK.
Remind me to not pay attention to any more of your posts, m’kay?
If genetics is the causative factor as some suggest, then why aren’t African teams dominant in Olympic basketball? Why don’t Africans sweep the sprint events, as well?
That said, it seems safe to suggest that some populations–rather than “races”–have certain endowments that predisposes them to athletic success in certain sports. For instance, Pygmies would fare rather badly in the NBA, black or otherwise, as would Japanese in general, given the height differential.
Do you agree, Collounsbury, or is this more sloppiness of thought?
Most answers have postulated reasons why blacks might be better at it, rather than why that matters at all. The nasty, brutish and short answer is because there’s no hiring quotas for NBA team rosters.
There are more than a few black personalities (usually not athletes) who say that the last thing black kids need is another sports hero, because it makes it seem as if that’s the only thing they can be good at.
And there are genetic differences. Not that that’s a reason to go burning crosses or anything, but anyone who says not so is a fool, or hasn’t really looked. - MC
Please be more specific for this fool. Feel free to cite any studies that strengthens your case. Explain how the world’s leading geneticists find no such “genetic differences” specific to any “race,” which might explain the composition of the NBA.
The reason the NBA is pretty much dominated with black athletes is mainly a matter of “will” more than anything else.
For a European basketball player, getting drafted into the NBA is the peak any bAsketball player can reach, and they see that as a goal they must pursue in developing themselves into bette players.
After Detlef Schrempf, Arvydas Sabonis and Drazen Petrovic were drafted, and did better than “survive” in the NBA, the talent scouts have started to search european leagues for players eligible to play in the NBA, and today’s NBA is being host to a serious number of European players - all white!!!
Of course there are white Americans playing in the league too, but any white player whose name carries any wight among the stars is a European.
Now, this pretty much refutes all claims about genetic aptitude to the game.
Being succesful in the NBA is more a matter of attitude.
And the average White American Kid is not deeply interested in playing in the NBA as a career.
Oooops…sorry for the K-know-it-all tone in the last sentence, it was just a deduction:=
I don’t even live in the USA
But if anyone is interested in reading why i don’t think they are interested in that - though I believe it is quite obvious- just post a note!!
Well, well, well. What do we mean by the ambiguous statement, “there are genetic differences”? Do we mean between individual humans.? Yes. Do we mean possibly by micro-populations? Possibility, depending on what you’re looking at. Do we mean by the classic races? ** No, absolutely not. **
Now, in order to skip much foolishness and save me, Gaspode, Tom and Edwino a lot of time typing out the same substantive citations, explanations etc and to save certain folks from looking, well, foolish, I would advise a search in the ** Great Debates ** forum using the keywords genetic and race. Or Africa and genetic.
Some combination of that and possibly my username should turn up the relevant threads, in which we repeat, with nauseating frequency, the same citations to the original literature in genetics, explain the significance of findings and patiently, excepting largely myself, explaining the concepts involved in genetics also.
Now, can we please put to rest this idiotic canard?
markxxx - “Well why are there no white heavyweight fighters either?”. Now you’re on to something. African Americans generally have a denser bone structure which allows them to take heavier blows to the body. Conversely,they don’t make great swimmers. That being said,I feel they have no advantage in the NBA.
Earl Woods,Tiger’s dad,has said that golf will soon see a bunch of inner city kids on the tour due to the First Tee program. I think that would be great,but don’t look for it soon. More than anyother sport,golf requires extensive practice to succeed. NOBODY works harder than Tiger. There’s not many golf courses in the ‘hood’.Golf is another sport where genetics don’t mean diddly.
I do agree, although noting that one cannot ** assume ** that a defined population has a genetic advantage because of apparent difference. (For anyone confused by the population reference, please do the research I suggested as I disinclined to retype what is freely available with a short search) per Japanese. Hieght, insofar as it is a determining factor in the sport -TS knows I could care less- is notoriously responsive to environment, e.g. diet.
That being said, of course there will be populations with advantageous morphologies. But, morphology, e.g. long legs, aiin’t the end of the equation to be sure.
I hope then that SDMB inhabitants will not seek simplistic and essentially wrong-headed genetics explanations for essentially superficial and uninformed observation.
Per the claim of denser bone structure for African Americans., let me advise the poster that they should have some substantive citations. Do we have a genetics question, in which case we can immediately exclude this, or do we have a diet question, in which case we are likely looking once more at a subset.
Again, let me be clear ** generalizations on Race based on coherent biological variation are fallacious.**
Agreed. Height **is **largely determined by dietary/environmental factors, and the younger generations of Japanese are actually catching up with Westerners. Forgive the inelegant analogy.
That said, your line of thinking is new to me and bears more thought, less talk, on my part. There is something admittedly appealing about reflexively concluding that “AA’s are better at sports than whites” (as another OP posits), yet I doubt that statement would stand up to rigorous scientific study.
AWB, you have inspired me YET again. I bow before thee, Oh Great Punster.
Cartooniverse
p.s. This thread is going to get incredibly ugly. This was just a wee bit of humor, riffing on AWB’s posting. No offense, racist slamming or hateful snotmongering was meant, implied, inferred or demurred herein. Why, my mother AND father were Jewish. OMG !!! That means… :eek:
