# Why is New York NOT a part of New England? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 4, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943 "2010-06-04T16:09:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/1 "2010-06-04T16:09:30Z")
Born and bred in New England I’ve got cider mills, clear clam chowder and MacIntoch Apples running through my veins and Chedder cheese on my Apple Pie - I have my guesses as to why New York is not a part of New England but I’d love to hear yours. As a Nutmegger - I think colonial puritan Connecticut folks tried to settle southern colonies [i.e. Salem, New Jersey] but when New York started to become larger than Boston [and in some ways more important] the “pure” colonials or New Englanders began excluding NY and PA from having strict New England roots. Having relatives living North of Bangor, Maine I also know they do not consider themselves New Englanders, but instead everything south of Bangor is “Over There”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/2 "2010-06-04T16:13:59Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > Having relatives living North of Bangor, Maine I also know they do not consider themselves New Englanders, but instead everything south of Bangor is “Over There”. That, I’ve never heard. If they root for the Red Sox, they’re New Englanders. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/3 "2010-06-04T16:16:57Z")
Because the European colony which became New York was not founded by the English. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/4 "2010-06-04T16:23:00Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Because the European colony which became New York was not founded by the English. Was it founded by Italians? Did they come to this land of opportunity to open a pizza parlor? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/5 "2010-06-04T16:23:23Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > That, I’ve never heard. If they root for the Red Sox, they’re New Englanders. Hmmm. And they all do. I think sports teams may be an outlier. The relatives are all voracious Sox and Pats fans…yet they hate going into Bean Town? Odd. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/6 "2010-06-04T16:30:27Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Was it founded by Italians? Did they come to this land of opportunity to open a pizza parlor? It was founded by the Dutch (assuming this is a serious question). ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/7 "2010-06-04T16:31:29Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Was it founded by Italians? Did they come to this land of opportunity to open a pizza parlor? […New York was once New Amsterdam, why thay changed it I cant’t say…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv-KcF3Rkv8) ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/8 "2010-06-04T17:08:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > (assuming this is a serious question). It was not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/9 "2010-06-04T17:13:59Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > […New York was once New Amsterdam, why thay changed it I cant’t say…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv-KcF3Rkv8) It’s nobody’s business but the English. 😉 To the OP, not even all of New England is New England. New Haven County, CT and even portions of adjacent counties are unquestionably part of metro New York, no matter what the map says. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/10 "2010-06-04T17:15:16Z")
And according to _The Nine Nations of North America_, New York City is an _anomaly_. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/11 "2010-06-04T17:39:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s nobody’s business but the English. 😉 > > To the OP, not even all of New England is New England. New Haven County, CT and even portions of adjacent counties are unquestionably part of metro New York, no matter what the map says. And those bastards in eastern Vermont originally seceded from New York! :: shakes fist :: ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/12 "2010-06-04T17:43:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s nobody’s business but the English. 😉 > > To the OP, not even all of New England is New England. New Haven County, CT and even portions of adjacent counties are unquestionably part of metro New York, no matter what the map says. My family [all Connecticut folks] are divided evenly between being Yankee fans and Red Socks fans making family BBQ’s a rucus event everytime they happen. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/13 "2010-06-04T18:32:14Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > The relatives are all voracious Sox and Pats fans…yet they hate going into Bean Town? Odd. Lots of New Englanders hate going to Boston. That’s not a good measure of things. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/14 "2010-06-04T19:14:17Z")
The real answer as stated above is that New York was not an British colony; it was a Dutch colony. They didn’t want to be considered part of “New England” any more than the English wanted them. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/15 "2010-06-04T19:14:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s nobody’s business but the English. 😉 > > To the OP, not even all of New England is New England. New Haven County, CT and even portions of adjacent counties are unquestionably part of metro New York, no matter what the map says. Fairfield County is even more part of the New York metropolitan area than New Haven County is. And as for the Yankees/Red Sox divide, a couple of years ago, the New York Times [attempted to determine the dividing line](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/18/sports/baseball/18fans.html), based on a Quinnipiac University survey. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/16 "2010-06-05T00:51:47Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The real answer as stated above is that New York was not an British colony; it was a Dutch colony. They didn’t want to be considered part of “New England” any more than the English wanted them. That is it in a nutshell. I have friends that live on land granted to them by England. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/17 "2010-06-05T01:12:01Z")
I have a hard time thinking of Lake Erie as being New England. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/18 "2010-06-05T01:13:53Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > That is it in a nutshell. I have friends that live on land granted to them by England. They must be really old. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/19 "2010-06-05T01:20:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Lots of New Englanders hate going to Boston. That’s not a good measure of things. I live in the outer Boston suburbs and I only go into Boston proper once or twice a year at most and that is only when I have to. I used to live there and liked it at the time but wouldn’t miss it for a second if I never had to set eyes on that city again. Many people in Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, and central/western Massachusetts feel the same way. Boston isn’t good at making friends even within New England. Boston beats New York City easily in things like education but it is a lot more insular and much less cosmopolitan. New York isn’t part of New England because New York state is drawn in a stupid way for these purposes. New York City and its environs couldn’t ever be considered New England any more than Philadelphia could. OTOH, northern New York is a lot like northern New England except a little grittier and a little more run down. It is still pretty but not to the same extent as its neighbor, Vermont, is to the East. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/20 "2010-06-05T01:55:51Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Boston beats New York City easily in things like education How d’ya figger? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943.md?page=2)