# Why is New York NOT a part of New England? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 4, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943 "2010-06-04T16:09:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/21 "2010-06-05T02:47:39Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > How d’ya figger? That is one of the few questions that you can honestly answer with “Almost all of it.” Boston is the education capital of the world. New York City has plenty of good schools of course but it can’t compete with its little sibling to the North. There are over 100 colleges and universities in the greater Boston area not to mention all of the great prep schools and public high schools. Here is a tiny sample of just the colleges and universities in the immediate Boston/Cambridge area: Harvard MIT Boston University Boston College Bentley University Berklee College of Music Boston Conservatory Brandeis University Cambridge College Emerson College New England Conservatory Northeastern University Tufts University ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/22 "2010-06-05T02:49:35Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > They must be really old. The land was granted to their ancestors by the Crown, then passed down through the generations. Having estates that have been in one’s family since before the Revolution is a definate mark of “old money”. You can find things like that up & down the East Coast (ie the original 13 Colonies); especially in Virginia & Maryland. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/23 "2010-06-06T01:02:21Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is one of the few questions that you can honestly answer with “Almost all of it.” Boston is the education capital of the world. New York City has plenty of good schools of course but it can’t compete with its little sibling to the North. > > There are over 100 colleges and universities in the greater Boston area not to mention all of the great prep schools and public high schools. > > Here is a tiny sample of just the colleges and universities in the immediate Boston/Cambridge area: > > Harvard > MIT > Boston University > Boston College > Bentley University > Berklee College of Music > Boston Conservatory > Brandeis University > Cambridge College > Emerson College > New England Conservatory > Northeastern University > Tufts University Pfft. I can play this game too. Columbia/Barnard NYU Fordham Cooper Union NYIT Pace University Juliard Pratt Institute LIU School of Visual Arts The New School Yeshiva University Marymount FIT New York Academy of Art And then there’s CUNY, the largest city university system in the world: City College, Hunter College, Baruch College, Brooklyn College, Queens College, and a half dozen others. And the six CUNY community colleges, which educate more than a quarter million students annually. There’s the CUNY graduate center, journalism school, and law school. That list doesn’t include the half-dozen elite New York City public prep schools, including Stuyvesant and Bronx Science, widely regarded as being among the best high schools in the country, nor the dozens of private prep schools, art schools, performing arts schools, and other educational institutions. It also doesn’t include New York City’s three public library systems, which individually are all among the largest in the country (and which, if they combined, would be dwarfed only by the Library of Congress and one or two university libraries.) It also doesn’t include the fact that New York is home to three of the world’s largest art museums, the American Museum of Natural History (dinosaurs!) the highly underrated Brooklyn Museum, and most of the prestigious performance venues in the country. That listing barely scratches the surface of what’s _in_ New York City; forget the Greater New York City area, which includes Hofstra, Adelphi, Bard, SUNY Stony Brook, SUNY Downstate Medical Center, and others. Saying “Boston is the education capital of the world” is like saying Vancouver is “the movie capital of the world.” They may make a lot of pictures up there, but it sure ain’t Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/24 "2010-06-06T01:10:47Z")
We’re still striving toward tattoo capitol. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/25 "2010-06-06T01:15:42Z")
> [@](#): > > New York isn’t part of New England because New York state is drawn in a stupid way for these purposes. New York City and its environs couldn’t ever be considered New England any more than Philadelphia could. OTOH, northern New York is a lot like northern New England except a little grittier and a little more run down. It is still pretty but not to the same extent as its neighbor, Vermont, is to the East. New York state basically has four divisions. There’s New York City itself. There’s the Hudson Valley region and Long Island, which are essentially extensions of New York City. There’s the midstate region, which runs from Albany to Buffalo - these are all of the old factory towns along the Erie Canal and such. And there’s northern New York, which is rural and agricultural - the western end of New England (or the southern edge of Quebec). People in these small Adirondack villages don’t relate to Binghampton and Utica any more than they do to Manhattan and Brooklyn. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/26 "2010-06-06T01:16:55Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I have a hard time thinking of Lake Erie as being New England. Well, there’s New York, and then there’s New York, and then there’s New York . . . Nobody would ever think New York City or its environs are part of New England, but there are some Upstate areas that are indistinguishable from Vermont. And there are also some parts of Suffolk County that would qualify as well. Not, however, anywhere near Lake Erie. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/27 "2010-06-07T00:20:49Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Nobody would ever think New York City or its environs are part of New England, but there are some Upstate areas that are indistinguishable from Vermont. We’re pretty suspicious of those parts of Vermont, too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/28 "2010-06-07T00:33:24Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Saying “Boston is the education capital of the world” is like saying Vancouver is “the movie capital of the world.” They may make a lot of pictures up there, but it sure ain’t Hollywood. I am not a big Boston fan but saying that New York City is superior to Boston in terms of educational opportunities is a delusional grandiose fantasy. Columbia is great for a 2nd tier Ivy League school but it isn’t Harvard. No one has an MIT except Boston (technically in the people’s republic of Cambridge across a small river but the same thing). NYU is similar to Boston University in terms of demographics but Boston has multiple levels of backups on that level as well. Stick with the Yankees because that is your best bet in terms of winning. NYC doesn’t have the land area to devote to American style colleges and doesn’t do that well overall except for maybe Juliard which is unique. The San Francisco area is a better competitor for Boston in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/29 "2010-06-07T02:40:21Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is one of the few questions that you can honestly answer with “Almost all of it.” Boston is the education capital of the world. Does anyone outside of Boston call it that? I’m duly impressed Boston has some very noteworthy schools - though in fairness it’d be truer to say Cambridge does, but close enough - but lots of big metropolitan areas have some excellent schools. And sure, it has little colleges, but again, so does any big city. But again… **does anyone outside Boston** call it “The education capital of the world?” That’s the real test. I tried Googling it. I was unsurprised to find that the actual world leader in both post-secondary institutions and students was London. I can’t find anyone calling Boston the “educational capital of the world” but I’m still looking. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/30 "2010-06-07T03:27:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Does anyone outside of Boston call it that? > But again… **does anyone outside Boston** call it “The education capital of the world?” That’s the real test. That is because the nickname for Boston is “The Hub” which is short for “The Hub of the Universe” and it isn’t really meant tongue in cheek either. I just barfed a little while I was typing that. Being the education capital of the world is pretty incidental and not very noteworthy in comparison. > **[Google](http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=the+hub+boston&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=the+hub&gs_rfai=CJA46-2MMTJOZFYm2hQSw7eW2CgAAAKoEBU_Q39G1&fp=62c7546c9e19fcb7)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. I am not from the Boston area and my family certainly isn’t. They have called it the education capital of the world so the answer to your question is literally yes. I just came up with some google searched where people said the same thing and I also learned about the cow pie throwing capital of the world as well. There are more than enough capitals to go around. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/31 "2010-06-07T03:40:59Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is because the nickname for Boston is “The Hub” which is short for “The Hub of the Universe” and it isn’t really meant tongue in cheek either. Actually, the original quote was meant to be sarcastic. Bostonians managed to overlook that and co-opt the expression. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PigBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@PigBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigBoy)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/32 "2010-06-07T03:58:27Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is because the nickname for Boston is “The Hub” which is short for “The Hub of the Universe” and it isn’t really meant tongue in cheek either. I just barfed a little while I was typing that. Ugh, I want to punch something, like a puppy or a small child, whenever I see that nickname used outside of a joke. Is Boston _trying_ to make everyone else hate it? (I live in Cambridge but I know people will hate me too. I mean, when the people across the river in the HUB OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE think we’re full of ourselves over here, the prospects aren’t good.) Fortunately it mostly seems to find active usage only in newspaper headlines, where apparently it’s worth saving three letters by writing “Hub” instead of “Boston.” ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/33 "2010-06-07T13:03:05Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > Chedder cheese on my Apple Pie 😕 A Wisconsin/midwestern thing, but Connecticut? Strange ways. What part of CT is that from? I sat in the governors chair in every field trip, have scores of those awesome pencils from the Peabody (you know, the ones with little shiny rocks in them), and had youthful imagination crushed when I found out Gillette’s Castle wasn’t owned by an ‘real’ knight. But cheese on pie? Maybe in Bizzaro New England … ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/34 "2010-06-07T15:17:21Z")
_Family Guy_ [shows](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgvvXaLpAYE) how New Englanders feel about New Yorkers. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/35 "2010-06-07T15:52:20Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > But cheese on pie? Maybe in Bizzaro New England … mmm … cheese on apple pie… also in Saskatchewan. as an aside, I thought people in Wisconsin would put cheese on everything! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/36 "2010-06-07T16:23:31Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > 😕 > > A Wisconsin/midwestern thing, but Connecticut? Strange ways. What part of CT is that from? Maybe the same part that invented [steamed cheeseburgers](http://steamcheeseburgerchest.com/)? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/37 "2010-06-07T16:27:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Maybe the same part that invented [steamed cheeseburgers](http://steamcheeseburgerchest.com/)? Fixed link: [Central Connecticut’s Steamed Cheeseburger](http://www.roadfood.com/EatingTours/34/central-connecticuts-steamed-cheeseburger) > [@](#): > > We’re not saying that the steamed cheeseburger is the best burger variation on earth, but if you care about regional specialties, it is something you must have. Limited to a small region of central Connecticut and dating back to the 1920s, when anything fried was considered unhealthful and steamed food was the nostrum of the moment, it lacks the crunch of grilled or charcoaled patty but, at its best, makes up for it with extreme juiciness and ultra-goopy cheese. Which is why Cleavland is _not_ part of New England. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/38 "2010-06-07T17:30:24Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > 😕 > > A Wisconsin/midwestern thing, but Connecticut? Yep. Cheddar on Apple Pie. Hartford area, at the least. Mm-mm good. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/39 "2010-06-07T17:32:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Maybe the same part that invented [steamed cheeseburgers](http://steamcheeseburgerchest.com/)? I hear they’re popular in Utica, but they call them Steamed Hams. [/OSR] ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943/40 "2010-06-07T18:11:01Z")
I thought it was more of an Albany expression. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-new-york-not-a-part-of-new-england/541943.md?page=1)