# Why is North Korea so utterly irresistible to proselytizing Christians? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841 "2014-08-05T02:51:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/21 "2014-08-05T13:41:50Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Cite? World News Daily. Did you ask the OP for a cite, for the implication that more than a token handful Christian missionaries have even gone to North Korea? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/22 "2014-08-05T14:14:21Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > But then they start screaming bloody murder for rescue once they get arrested. “Tough shit,” I say. They went into North Korea knowing that could happen, and it did. Let them live with the consequences of their choice. I don’t see it as any different than if they went there with the Red Cross or some group to build schools or educate women or any other humanitarian mission and were arrested. I get that you might since you place a low value on what they’re doing but since they sincerely believe they’re doing good, it’s much the same to me. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/23 "2014-08-05T14:16:07Z")
One might ask the OP’s question about any form of civil disobedience. The American South was at least as dangerous a place for Northern activists in the '50s and '60s as NoKo is for Christian activists today (if not more so), yet people kept coming. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/24 "2014-08-05T14:23:35Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > I’m not a believer but this post is rather offensive, I really hope you are joking Wait, let me get this straight. This is a thread in which a single, anecdotal incident reported in a highly suspect news source is inflated to represent the basic mentality of the broad Christian faith, which by itself is difficult enough to take seriously. And then I am considered offensive (by Americans, of all people) if I remark about judicial execution as a response to behavior that is statutorily criminal as well as being disruptive to the internal peace and civil order of a sovereign nation. An overwhelming majority of Christian Americans are perfectly happy with executions as an administration of justice, and if you find this offensive, you’ve got a lot more people to quibble with than me. This is MPSIMS – lighten up . Foir the record, by the way, nobody on this board is more strongly opposed to capital punishment than I am. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/25 "2014-08-05T14:48:52Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Wait, let me get this straight. This is a thread in which a single, anecdotal incident reported in a highly suspect news source is inflated to represent the basic mentality of the broad Christian faith, which by itself is difficult enough to take seriously. And then I am considered offensive (by Americans, of all people) if I remark about judicial execution as a response to behavior that is statutorily criminal as well as being disruptive to the internal peace and civil order of a sovereign nation. > > An overwhelming majority of Christian Americans are perfectly happy with executions as an administration of justice, and if you find this offensive, you’ve got a lot more people to quibble with than me. This is MPSIMS – lighten up . Foir the record, by the way, nobody on this board is more strongly opposed to capital punishment than I am. Well the OP at least provided a cite. Could you please do the same, like an actual link to a story we can read? I can’t even find a website for “World News Daily”, do you mean [World Net Daily (now WND)](http://www.wnd.com/)? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/26 "2014-08-05T14:55:26Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > One might ask the OP’s question about any form of civil disobedience. The American South was at least as dangerous a place for Northern activists in the '50s and '60s as NoKo is for Christian activists today (if not more so), yet people kept coming. One is our own country; the other is a foreign country entirely, where the Constitution holds zero power whatever. Not a one-to-one comparison. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/27 "2014-08-05T15:01:43Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Well the OP at least provided a cite. Could you please do the same, like an actual link to a story we can read? > I can’t even find a website for “World News Daily”, do you mean [World Net Daily (now WND)](http://www.wnd.com/)? My response that you quoted was to Namkcalb, who did not ask me for a cite, but just said my generic opinion on a broad topic was personally offensive to him. I do not have cites to my generic opinions on broad topics… I was not aware that MPSIMS required cites. Is this something new? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/28 "2014-08-05T15:05:39Z")
OK, then. **Oakminster** asked you for a cite that there is a bright side with a happy ending, too. North Korea catches them and executes them. I’m asking also. Can you please provide a citation? I’m not saying your wrong mind you, I’d just like to see confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/29 "2014-08-05T15:07:14Z")
While I see no reason to believe there are a lot of missionaries going to North Korea, I absolutely understand the draw. If you have read Chick Tracts and other Christian proselytizing materials, they tend to be filled with people who have apparently never heard of Jesus Christ or that Christians think he died for our sins. While this idea is absurd in the developed world, the United States in particular, these fantasies of conversion could actually come true in a place like North Korea. There and a few tribes in the Amazon are about the only places left you could make this dream come true. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/30 "2014-08-05T15:15:21Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My response that you quoted was to Namkcalb, who did not ask me for a cite, but just said my generic opinion on a broad topic was personally offensive to him. I do not have cites to my generic opinions on broad topics… > > I was not aware that MPSIMS required cites. Is this something new? If you state something as fact, best be prepared to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/31 "2014-08-05T15:15:45Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > If you state something as fact, best be prepared to back it up. OK, I was a bit hasty. At least 33 Christian missionaries have been sentenced to death in North Korea, but I am not sure that any of them have been actually executed yet. Here is the cite you so fervently desire: > **[Prayer Need: 33 Christian Missionaries Under Death Sentence In North Korea](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/2014/03/prayer-need-33-christian-missionaries-under-death-sentence-in-north-korea/)** > > Kim Jong-un, North Korea's tyrant leader, has imposed a death sentence on 33 Christian missionaries who are believed to be working alongside South Korean ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/32 "2014-08-05T15:26:12Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > OK, I was a bit hasty. At least 33 Christian missionaries have been sentenced to death in North Korea, but I am not sure that any of them have been actually executed yet. Here is the cite you so fervently desire: > > [http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/2014/03/prayer-need-33-christian-missionaries-under-death-sentence-in-north-korea/](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/2014/03/prayer-need-33-christian-missionaries-under-death-sentence-in-north-korea/) The [33 missionaries](http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2014/03/05/north-korea-rumor-update-missionary-contacts-face-execution/) are North Korean > [@](#): > > North Koreans who fell into the orbit of detained South Korean missionary Kim Jung-wook face execution, South Korea’s Chosun Ilbo reports. At Mr. Kim’s staged press conference on Feb. 27, North Korea aired confessions of some North Koreans who allegedly worked with the missionary, according to reports from Pyongyang. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/33 "2014-08-05T15:31:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The [33 missionaries](http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2014/03/05/north-korea-rumor-update-missionary-contacts-face-execution/) are North Korean Where does the OP exclude North Korean Christians from being covered by the blanket statement? They were “proselytizing Christians”, which is within the scope of the OP. And they were in " the orbit of detained South Korean missionary Kim Jung-wook". ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/34 "2014-08-05T15:35:04Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Where does the OP exclude North Korean Christians from being covered by the blanket statement? They were “proselytizing Christians”, which is within the scope of the OP. I understood the OP to be about Christians from other countries coming into NK to proselytize. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/35 "2014-08-05T15:51:04Z")
nm. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/36 "2014-08-05T16:02:41Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > An overwhelming majority of Christian Americans are perfectly happy with executions as an administration of justice They typically favor executions for things like…murder. North Korea sentencing someone to death for spreading Christianity is quite different than sentencing someone to death for homicide, ya know? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/37 "2014-08-05T16:29:27Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > An overwhelming majority of Christian Americans are perfectly happy with executions as an administration of justice [Not according to a recent poll:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/poll-younger-christians-less-supportive-of-the-death-penalty/2014/01/17/157a854a-7fb9-11e3-97d3-b9925ce2c57b_story.html) > [@](#): > > When asked if they agreed that “the government should have the option to execute the worst criminals,” 42 percent of self-identified Christian boomers, born between 1946 and 1964, said “yes.” Only 32 percent of self-identified Christian millennials, born between 1980 and 2000, said the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/38 "2014-08-05T17:08:02Z")
Here is my statement, and my cites: * * * “There is a bright side with a happy ending, too. North Korea catches them and executes them.”\*\*\* To wit: The American people look favorably on execution as a positive cultural attribute: > **[U.S. Death Penalty Support Stable at 63%](https://news.gallup.com/poll/159770/death-penalty-support-stable.aspx)** > > Americans' support for the death penalty as punishment for murder has plateaued in the low 60s in recent years after a decade-long decline. Sixty-three percent now favor it, similar to 61% in 2011 and 64% in 2010. To wit: A number of people have been sentenced to death in North Korea for Christian proselytizing: > **[North Korea Rumor Update: Missionary Contacts Face Execution](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-KRTB-5128)** > > North Koreans who fell into the orbit of detained South Korean missionary Kim Jung-wook face execution, South Korea's Chosun Ilbo reports. At Mr. Kim's staged press conference on Feb. 27, North Korea aired confessions of some North Koreans who... If you disagree with my citations, attack my sources, not me. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/39 "2014-08-05T17:27:27Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Here is my statement, and my cites: > > * * * > > “There is a bright side with a happy ending, too. North Korea catches them and executes them.”\*\*\* > > To wit: The American people look favorably on execution as a positive cultural attribute: > > [U.S. Death Penalty Support Stable at 63%](http://www.gallup.com/poll/159770/death-penalty-support-stable.aspx) > > To wit: A number of people have been sentenced to death in North Korea for Christian proselytizing: > > [http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2014/03/05/north-korea-rumor-update-missionary-contacts-face-execution/](http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2014/03/05/north-korea-rumor-update-missionary-contacts-face-execution/) > > If you disagree with my citations, attack my sources, not me. You specifically said Christian Americans. I’ve shown you a poll that disputes that. I don’t see anyone attacking you personally, at least that’s not my intention. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/40 "2014-08-05T17:36:22Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > You specifically said Christian Americans. I’ve shown you a poll that disputes that. > I don’t see anyone attacking you personally, at least that’s not my intention. I have quoted the entirety of my post that was callled “offensive”. I mentioned Christians later, and I continue to defend that. Look at my cite for the death penalty. Consistently, 75-80% of Conservatives and Republicans favor the death penalty. Please explain where all these Conservatives and Republicans who are NOT Christians came from, to account for such a huge discrepancy in the two poll results. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841.md?page=3)