# Why is North Korea so utterly irresistible to proselytizing Christians? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841 "2014-08-05T02:51:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/41 "2014-08-05T17:39:25Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > People who go on overseas missionary adventures are by definition narcissists with martyr complexes. I’m surprised there aren’t more of these twerps arrested in NK every year. Would you say the same thing about, say, Doctors without Borders? And please don’t answer with some variation of, “No, because God isn’t real.” You know that, and I know that, but being wrong about the existence of a deity doesn’t automatically make you a narcissist. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/42 "2014-08-05T17:53:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Would you say the same thing about, say, Doctors without Borders? And please don’t answer with some variation of, “No, because God isn’t real.” You know that, and I know that, but being wrong about the existence of a deity doesn’t automatically make you a narcissist. That is a fair point. But I don’t know of any such doctors who willfully violated the laws of the land or the terms of their visa in order to intrude where they were clearly not welcome. Or any that went into a country with the clear and expressed intent of overthrowing the established governmental organization. Further, their medical practice remains within the scope of what is already culturally accepted in the community in which they work, without any necessity to first convince the people of its efficacy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/43 "2014-08-05T17:56:15Z")
For those interested in picking at the [Scab of Stupid Posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17611828#post17611828). I leave it to the more experienced Dopers to puzzle out what my signoff means this time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/44 "2014-08-05T18:01:53Z")
I don’t think they should be killed or imprisoned but I’m finding it difficult to muster up sympathy for someone who willingly puts himself at that risk for something I consider trivial at best and a dangerous lie at worst ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/45 "2014-08-05T18:08:47Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I have quoted the entirety of my post that was callled “offensive”. I mentioned Christians later, and I continue to defend that. > > Look at my cite for the death penalty. Consistently, 75-80% of Conservatives and Republicans favor the death penalty. Please explain where all these Conservatives and Republicans who are NOT Christians came from, to account for such a huge discrepancy in the two poll results. You can defend it all you want, the numbers say otherwise and your own cite does not back you up. As for why the discrepancy? I personally will not offer as factual positions I have no cite for. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/46 "2014-08-05T18:17:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For those interested in picking at the [Scab of Stupid Posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17611828#post17611828). > > I leave it to the more experienced Dopers to puzzle out what my signoff means this time. > > Regards, > Shodan This is out of bounds for this forum, don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/47 "2014-08-05T18:29:25Z")
My apologies then - I should have edited that out too. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/48 "2014-08-05T19:01:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Would you say the same thing about, say, Doctors without Borders? And please don’t answer with some variation of, “No, because God isn’t real.” You know that, and I know that, but being wrong about the existence of a deity doesn’t automatically make you a narcissist. No, because MSF workers accomplish good things which can be directly observed and measured. Sure some doctors can be a bit full of themselves, but they’re accomplishing something. Missionaries are just there to make themselves feel better, by collecting souls for God. I don’t think religious missionaries are incapable of doing good works; many have built schools and orphanages and set up charities of all kinds. But those tend to be workers from religions that place an emphasis on charitable works rather than evangelism (Catholics, Anglicans, non-crazy protestants, etc.) Evangelist missionaries rarely accomplish anything of value. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/49 "2014-08-05T19:03:35Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > No, because MSF workers accomplish good things which can be directly observed and measured. Sure some doctors can be a bit full of themselves, but they’re accomplishing something. Missionaries are just there to make themselves feel better, by collecting souls for God. > [@me](#): > > And please don’t answer with some variation of, “No, because God isn’t real.” I knew there was no way you were going to pay attention to that part. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/50 "2014-08-05T19:06:41Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I don’t think religious missionaries are incapable of doing good works; many have built schools and orphanages and set up charities of all kinds. But those tend to be workers from religions that place an emphasis on charitable works rather than evangelism (Catholics, Anglicans, non-crazy protestants, etc.) One difference; the missionaries building schools and orphanages generally only do so in countries in which they’re welcome. And they’re open about it, unlike the guy leaving a Bible behind in a hotel room in Pyongyang. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/51 "2014-08-05T19:24:21Z")
Let’s get back to the OP at hand and stop the bit of hijack. It seemed to start from this post: > [@jtur88](#): > > There is a bright side with a happy ending, too. North Korea catches them and executes them. …which, by the way, is also out of bounds for this topic/forum. Take the debate/hijack somewhere else and don’t make posts like this again. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/52 "2014-08-05T19:32:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I knew there was no way you were going to pay attention to that part. My answer was clear and directly addressed that part of your question. The goal of evangelist missionaries is to convert people. They are not doing charity or accomplishing anything of value. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/53 "2014-08-05T20:35:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Would you say the same thing about, say, Doctors without Borders? And please don’t answer with some variation of, “No, because God isn’t real.” You know that, and I know that, but being wrong about the existence of a deity doesn’t automatically make you a narcissist. The difference between DWB and missionaries is that the doctors usually go in there with neutral intentions to help out anyone who’s hurt. They don’t usually make waves to try to convert people to a political or religious view. They don’t try to purposefully antagonize the ruling faction and dare them to arrest them and beg for a response from the world. They are happy doing their jobs with little or no publicity, confining their work to an unbiased view of simply healing people to health Missionaries, by their definition, go in with an agenda and try to get as much sympathy, coverage, or attention as they can within safe parameters (or sometimes unsafe) to bend a religious or political ideology to their own. By this very nature and going into places where they are usually unknown or unwelcome, they are against the ruling faction. A doctor would probably help out someone in the ruling faction actively engaged in hostilities because that’s their humanitarian mission, though they probably would draw the line if that person was going to go back to fighting and killing others. Would a missionary help out an opposing religion by spreading that religion’s message for them? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/54 "2014-08-05T20:46:06Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > One is our own country; the other is a foreign country entirely, where the Constitution holds zero power whatever. Not a one-to-one comparison. That doesn’t really have anything to do with the issue, which is the matter of personal danger. The Constitution did not stop people from murdering Civil Rights workers in the South. It was very dangerous. Conversely, the US Constitution holds zero power for an American who chooses to, say, travel to Canada, but that is hardly a dangerous undertaking. The question the OP is asking is why people do something that appears to be singularly dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/55 "2014-08-05T22:44:01Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I don’t see it as any different than if they went there with the Red Cross or some group to build schools or educate women or any other humanitarian mission and were arrested. I’d assume that they are not going into other countries and performing actions against local law as part of (or the sole) reason for being there. Should they do so, and should they be arrested for it, my sympathy for them would also be limited. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/56 "2014-08-09T08:38:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > One difference; the missionaries building schools and orphanages generally only do so in countries in which they’re welcome. And they’re open about it, unlike the guy leaving a Bible behind in a hotel room in Pyongyang. You’ve equated “not welcome” with “illegal”. Evidentally you regard the NK goverment as representing the religious position of the NK people. On the evidence of the large gulag, the number of emigrants, and the reported fear by the Chinese goverment of a mass exodus, I would say that belief was questionable. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/57 "2014-08-09T15:41:03Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Well, if you got a whole nation that believes their (former) dear leader sunk 18 holes in one,… With a unicorn as his caddie. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/58 "2014-12-21T19:50:24Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Well, if you got a whole nation that believes their (former) dear leader sunk 18 holes in one … That is so unfair to the Great Leader! He merely shot a 38-under score of 34 strokes that included a much more reasonable 11 aces. Sheesh, you exaggerate things like that and no one is going to believe them… ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/59 "2014-12-24T23:23:24Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I have quoted the entirety of my post that was callled “offensive”. I mentioned Christians later, and I continue to defend that. > > Look at my cite for the death penalty. Consistently, 75-80% of Conservatives and Republicans favor the death penalty. Please explain where all these Conservatives and Republicans who are NOT Christians came from, to account for such a huge discrepancy in the two poll results. But they tend to support the death penalty for crimes like, you know, murder or rape not proselytizing. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841/60 "2014-12-25T03:06:11Z")
The OP may as well ask why the flame is so utterly irresistible to moths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-north-korea-so-utterly-irresistible-to-proselytizing-christians/694841.md?page=4)