# Why is Obama not a European-American? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391 "2008-11-06T01:38:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/41 "2008-11-06T20:29:10Z")
I think Obama has explained why he considers himself culturally black because until he became well known, cab drivers in New York refused to pick him up. Ed ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/42 "2008-11-06T20:34:23Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > European-Canadian? Never heard of such an animal. > > The term “African-Canadian” would feel strange coming off my lips as well. They are African American Canadians… “African American Canadian” is just ridiculous, and no intelligent person would use such a convoluted term. I’ve also never heard of aboriginals from Canada referred to as “Native Americans.” “Native Canadian” is a reasonably easy term to find, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/43 "2008-11-06T20:45:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > “African American Canadian” is just ridiculous, and no intelligent person would use such a convoluted term. The current Governor-General of Canada, Michaëlle Jean, has African ancestry, and some people probably call her “black”, but she’s not African American, since she didn’t come from the US: she was born in Haiti. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/44 "2008-11-06T21:05:27Z")
arg ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/45 "2008-11-06T21:14:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > “African American Canadian” is just ridiculous, and no intelligent person would use such a convoluted term. I should have typed “The are Canadians who are African Americans” > [@](#): > > I’ve also never heard of aboriginals from Canada referred to as “Native Americans.” “Native Canadian” is a reasonably easy term to find, actually. Google hits “Native American” Canada 6,170,000 “Native Canadian” Canada 80,200 “African American” Canada 21,700,000 “African Canadian” Canada 459,000 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/46 "2008-11-06T21:20:32Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Google hits > > … > > “African American” Canada 21,700,000 The first hit with that search – [Black Canadians - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Canadian) – says: > [@](#): > > Unlike in the United States, where African American is now one of several generally accepted terms, Blacks of Caribbean origin in Canada largely reject the term African Canadian as an elision of their Caribbean heritage. So it does not support the idea that “African American” is used to describe Black Canadians. And a common term used for the indigenous peoples of Canada is “First Nations”, while another is “aboriginal”. Canada is not a mini United States. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/47 "2008-11-06T21:59:44Z")
I do not think the identification of a individual with a race is necessarily a left-over from bigoted concepts of the past. In our times it’s usually a self-designation. To the extent that races are phenotypically typical, it can be a bit tricky to look like one “race” and self-identify with another, but the whole notion of “looking like a race” bogs down pretty rapidly due to genetic diversity and diversity of phenotypic expression. Genetically, Mr Obama is “European American” if all that is meant by that is that his genetic ancestry comes in part from European ancestors. However the term “\_\_\_\_”-American is usually shorthand for a self-identification with a culture or a particular historical heritage. There’s a tacit understanding that at least some genetic heritage has to be from the first half of the term; if that requirement is eliminated, you got yourself a poser, or at least a Navin Johnson. On the other hand, there’s no requirement at all that anything close to 50% of your genes needs to be from some sort of pure population stock to self-identify. For example, the self-identification term “Native American” for the purpose of qualifying for a minority affirmative-action benefit is not going to have some sort of genomic qualifying test. There isn’t one. You might be only one quarter Cherokee ancestrally but still self-identify with that group. You’d qualify for inclusion without any grief. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/48 "2008-11-06T22:53:25Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I should have typed “The are Canadians who are African Americans” > Google hits… You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. You can find a lot of pages that have the terms “African American” and “Canada” on the same page. So? Tell you what; find me reputable sources that list “African American Canadian” as a legitimate term for a black person from Canada. Or explain how a Canadian is an African-American, when that term is specifically used to describe residents of the United States, which is a different country. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/49 "2008-11-06T23:31:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Someone who is 1/16 black and 15/16 white would not be considered black in contemporary American society. True. I’m a 16th black, and never have been called “black.” Neither has my mother, who is 1/8th. And you know why? Because we don’t consider people black if they have milk-white skin, blue eyes and red hair. Obviously neither I, nor my mother or brother self-identify as black, but even if we did, I seriously doubt we could convince _other_ people to think of us that way. As for Halle Berry’s kids, if instead of [like this](http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080908/halle_berry.jpg) they looked [like this](http://www.theinsider.com/news/754408_Garcelle_Beauvais_Nilon_and_Mike_Nilon_s_Twins_Cover_Jet_Magazine), people would fuss and insist they are “not black,” just as is not infrequently insisted about the babies in that photo. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/50 "2008-11-06T23:46:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Tell you what; find me reputable sources that list “African American Canadian” as a legitimate term for a black person from Canada. Or explain how a Canadian is an African-American, when that term is specifically used to describe residents of the United States, which is a different country. How about [Britannica](http://student.britannica.com/comptons/article-9309762/Alexander-Lincoln) . Are they reputable enough for you? I specifically searched out an African American from your area who I’ve talked to on a bus in Hamilton when he was an MP. > [@](#): > > (born 1922), Canadian politician. Lincoln Alexander became the first African American to hold a vice-regal office in Canada when he was installed as the 24th lieutenant governor of Ontario in 1985. I might add that he was born in Toronto. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/51 "2008-11-06T23:48:10Z")
It could be worse. I once saw a Black History Month poster in school which included Nelson Mandela as a “famous African-American”. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/52 "2008-11-06T23:59:03Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > The first hit with that search – [Black Canadians - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Canadian) – says: > > So it does not support the idea that “African American” is used to describe Black Canadians. > > And a common term used for the indigenous peoples of Canada is “First Nations”, while another is “aboriginal”. Canada is not a mini United States. This points out a particular annoyance of mine: Using numbers of Google hits to prove a point is both lazy and likely to be specious. Ed ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/53 "2008-11-07T00:33:33Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > How about [Britannica](http://student.britannica.com/comptons/article-9309762/Alexander-Lincoln) . Are they reputable enough for you? Where in the article is the term “African American Canadian” used? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/54 "2008-11-07T00:38:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Where in the article is the term “African American Canadian” used? Check my post #45. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/55 "2008-11-07T00:46:14Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Check my post #45. Alright, then on to the Britannica article: They’re wrong. He’s not an African-American, because he’s not American. He’s Canadian. The use of “African-American” to describe black people from other countries is just laziness and stupidity; as has been pointed out, it’s been applied to people from the United Kingdom and Caribbean nations too. It’s a product of it being used in polite company to replace “Black,” and growing from there, as people think they have to use the newest term to describe anyone who looks like they have AFrican ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/56 "2008-11-07T01:28:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > They’re wrong. He’s not an African-American, because he’s not American. He’s Canadian. I agree. Its not my intention to quibble, but a case can be made that the term reflects as continental-continental rather than continental-country. Check out this [site](http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=5b8d531de860940110af2433244782c6) > [@](#): > > Faced with such social realities, blacks have begun to call for a new Civil Rights Movement. By the way, all this is taking place in Brazil. > > While some forget that the United States does not have a monopoly over the title “America,” the term, with some exceptions, encompasses most of the Western Hemisphere. As such, many of the communities of African descent that reside within this range possess equal claim to the name “African Americans.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/57 "2008-11-07T04:46:45Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I agree. Its not my intention to quibble, but a case can be made that the term reflects as continental-continental rather than continental-country. Check out this [site](http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=5b8d531de860940110af2433244782c6) On the other hand, having made the obligatory claim that anyone in the Western Hemisphere has “an equal claim” to be identified as “American,” the rest of the article never uses the phrase and refers to Brazilians of African descent as “Afro-Brazilians” throughout. I am not about to tell anyone how they should identify themelves, but I would note that 1) using a term that no one else appears to understand or using it in a way that runs counter to a widely accepted definition is liable to bring grief to the speaker and 2) applying a term to others when they have not embraced the term generally leads to confusion and bad feelings. The origins of the “_hyphenated_-American” terms (in English) are rooted in the particular experience of the waves of immigrants to the United States (of America). African-American was explicitly chosen by Jesse Jackson and his meeting of black leaders for the purpose of referring to the black community in a way more similar to their Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American, etc. neighbors. This usage is not cast in concrete, of course, but any use of the phrase in a different context is liable to cause confusion or bring derision down on the head of a person who employs it. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/58 "2008-11-07T08:15:50Z")
Get back to the OP… Obama is not considered white merely because of the color of his skin and doesn’t identify as white because of it. It’s sort of like cancer, all you need is 1 cancer cell and you have cancer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391/59 "2008-11-07T10:16:46Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Thomas Jefferson’s slave girl mistress Sally Hemmings was reportedly so light-skinned that she was sometimes mistaken for a white woman. The three children Jefferson had with her must have been majoritively white in terms of racial background. But they were, conveniently, still slaves from birth until Jefferson kept his bargain with Sally and freed them. Fighting ignorance here in the OP. While DNA evidence does indicate a Jefferson male was in the gene pool for one child, no conclusive evidence exists to tie Thomas to the woman’s children. Over twenty Jefferson males were available. A better statement might have included the terms, “alleged”, “rumored”, or “might have fathered”. At least one claim for another child / family was refuted by the DNA examination. The Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society and Thomas Jefferson Foundation came to opposite conclusions when examining the same evidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-not-a-european-american/471391.md?page=2)