# Why Is Obama Pissing Off Catholic Voters Unneccesarily? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 9, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286 "2012-02-09T06:06:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/142 "2012-02-11T02:45:17Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > To quote the article I linked to earlier: > > Sebelius included one small conscience exemption: A religious employer who objects to medical treatment aimed at prevention of the disease commonly known as “pregnancy” may leave it out of their health insurance coverage provided the employer satisfies three criteria: (1) It has religious inculcation as its primary duty; (2) It primarily employs people of the same faith; and (3) It primarily serves people of the same faith. This fig leaf is enough to cover most small churches​—​so long as your parish employs only a couple of priests and a secretary, it would probably get a pass. Larger institutions would not. > > In the Catholic world, for instance, a diocesan office often employs lots of people​—​lawyers, janitors, administrative staff​—​who are not necessarily Catholic. And the duties of such offices extend far beyond inculcation of the faith​—​to include charity, community service, and education Well, that’s their choice. It’s quite possible to do these things and employ co-religionists. I taught for five years at an evangelical Christian college, which only hired people - right down to the cafeteria staff and the buildings and grounds crew - who shared the faith that was central to the college. That college would have the right to buy insurance that didn’t include contraception. I hope they’re not interested in doing so. But if you hire mostly people who don’t share your faith, then whatever beliefs you espouse, you’re basically secular _in your capacity as an employer_. If you’re going to hire without respect to faith, then why on earth should faith suddenly come back into play with respect to health insurance benefits? You’ve already gone secular with respect to employment; it’s a little bit late to stuff that genie back in the bottle. This argument may be moot after today’s events, but I’m still curious as to what the counterargument would be. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_Next\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@Girl\_Next\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_Next_Door)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/143 "2012-02-11T02:56:59Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > My comment on that bit of preemptive freakout is “awaiting moderation” and somehow I suspect it will never see the light of day: Wrongo. I was at work. All first-time posters on my blog have to be approved. Your comment was approved, published, and replied to. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/144 "2012-02-11T03:40:07Z")
> [@Girl\_Next\_Door](#): > > Wrongo. I was at work. All first-time posters on my blog have to be approved. Your comment was approved, published, and replied to. Holy guacamole – prediction blown to smithereens by a classy response. All I can say is: Hey there! Also, wow – not only have you looked at the facts and reconsidered, you’ve been polite to a stranger who barged in with abrasive snarkitude. Good on ya! A lot of people would have taken a far less admirable course. My metaphorical hat (mostly cat hair and horse dander) is doffed to you. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_Next\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@Girl\_Next\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_Next_Door)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/145 "2012-02-11T04:18:10Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Holy guacamole – prediction blown to smithereens by a classy response. All I can say is: > > Hey there! Also, wow – not only have you looked at the facts and reconsidered, you’ve been polite to a stranger who barged in with abrasive snarkitude. Good on ya! A lot of people would have taken a far less admirable course. My metaphorical hat (mostly cat hair and horse dander) is doffed to you. [curtsies] Now, let us join hands and sing Kumbaya. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/146 "2012-02-11T04:31:49Z")
> [@Girl\_Next\_Door](#): > > [curtsies] Now, let us join hands and sing Kumbaya. Gladly; although be warned, I can’t carry a tune in a five-gallon bucket. But it is rather amusing to watch the cats bolt in horror. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/147 "2012-02-11T04:36:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Women who work for the church and cannot afford it. Women who work for the Church and cannot afford birth control still have as much choice to use birth control as does someone who does not work for the Church and cannot afford control. > [@](#): > > The church is forcing them not to by not providing them the means of exercising their own choice. If the church actually wanted people to have free choice, they would provide birth control and recommend that no one use it. If the Church refuses to give their employees food, is the Church forcing them to starve? Does not doing so constitute taking away their choice to eat? > [@](#): > > It is when there are women working for the church that can’t afford it. Whether or not they can afford it is _not the Church’s problem_, nor should it be, nor does it affect one’s choice to use birth control. > [@](#): > > Please cite where the Pope makes the distinction that Catholics are ok with birth control as long as the church doesn’t pay for it Why should I cite that? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/148 "2012-02-11T04:45:36Z")
Re: caving. It seems to me that the revised rule actually expands contraception coverage to institutions like churches that had an exemption. So, isn’t this actually a win for contraception coverage (and hence Obama)? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/149 "2012-02-11T06:38:53Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Re: caving. > > It seems to me that the revised rule actually expands contraception coverage to institutions like churches that had an exemption. > > So, isn’t this actually a win for contraception coverage (and hence Obama)? Seems that way to me. Seems like he let people bitch, then gave them what they wanted but in the process got what he wanted anyway. That’s good politicking, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/150 "2012-02-11T06:40:01Z")
I really don’t understand this Republican war on contraception. Does anybody think railing against birth control is going to help them come election time? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/151 "2012-02-11T06:48:47Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > I really don’t understand this Republican war on contraception. Does anybody think railing against birth control is going to help them come election time? You should watch the Maddow video; she patiently explains that the vast majority of people, even conservative people, use and want to use birth control. Yet for some inexplicable reason, EVERY Republican candidate has hung their hat on the “birth control is wrong” hook. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/152 "2012-02-11T09:00:01Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > I really don’t understand this Republican war on contraception. Does anybody think railing against birth control is going to help them come election time? It is weird, isn’t it? Republicans are against birth control, education, reducing taxes on the poor (if the wealthy have to make up the difference), eating healthy, affordable healthcare… if a Democrat is for it, Republicans are agin’ it. I honestly don’t understand why Republican voters are so brand-loyal as to vote against their own self-interest. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/153 "2012-02-11T11:35:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You should watch the Maddow video; she patiently explains that the vast majority of people, even conservative people, use and want to use birth control. Yet for some inexplicable reason, EVERY Republican candidate has hung their hat on the “birth control is wrong” hook. Who, besides Santorum, has hung his hat on this? ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/154 "2012-02-11T12:14:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Who, besides Santorum, has hung his hat on this? "After Mississippi rejected ‘personhood’ and its threat to contraception, after Colorado rejected it twice, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Ron Paul attended (Paul by satellite) a [Personhood USA candidates forum](http://www.personhoodusa.com/category/states/south-carolina) in South Carolina. All signed a pledge to pursue ‘personhood’ at the federal level. Mitt Romney did not attend the event, but when asked on Fox News before the Mississippi vote last year whether he would have supported such a measure as Massachusetts governor, he replied, ‘[Absolutely](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/03/democrats-attack-romney-over-controversial-abortion-amendment/).’ [http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rachel-maddow-the-gop-war-on-birth-control/2012/02/10/gIQAbZ734Q\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rachel-maddow-the-gop-war-on-birth-control/2012/02/10/gIQAbZ734Q_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/155 "2012-02-11T12:20:43Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > "After Mississippi rejected ‘personhood’ and its threat to contraception, after Colorado rejected it twice, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Ron Paul attended (Paul by satellite) a [Personhood USA candidates forum](http://www.personhoodusa.com/category/states/south-carolina) in South Carolina. All signed a pledge to pursue ‘personhood’ at the federal level. Mitt Romney did not attend the event, but when asked on Fox News before the Mississippi vote last year whether he would have supported such a measure as Massachusetts governor, he replied, ‘[Absolutely](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/03/democrats-attack-romney-over-controversial-abortion-amendment/).’ > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rachel-maddow-the-gop-war-on-birth-control/2012/02/10/gIQAbZ734Q\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rachel-maddow-the-gop-war-on-birth-control/2012/02/10/gIQAbZ734Q_story.html) What does that have to do with contraception? That’s an anti-abortion movement. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/156 "2012-02-11T12:35:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What does that have to do with contraception? That’s an anti-abortion movement. Read the cite. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/157 "2012-02-11T12:42:03Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > Read the cite. Quote the relevant part. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/158 "2012-02-11T12:52:26Z")
Unbelievable. It’s eleven short paragraphs. Do you want me to cut your meat for you, too? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/159 "2012-02-11T12:54:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Quote the relevant part. Okay: > [@](#): > > But voters seem to have rejected “personhood” for a different reason — legally redefining a “person” would not only criminalize all abortion but would probably outlaw hormonal forms of birth control as well. Hormonal contraceptives generally prevent an egg from being fertilized in the first place, but the at-least-theoretical possibility that they might also prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus was enough to raise the specter of birth control pills being viewed as an instrument of homicide. I’d also like to note that this is taken from a not-very-long piece, and it is easily found by anyone who glances at it more than very casually. (The quotation is the entire fourth paragraph.) IOW, while \*\*John Mace \*\* is technically 100% within his rights, and seems reasonable, in asking for a quotation to be pulled out of the article for his convenience, it’s also obvious he’s seeking to make some point about the dubiousness of the claim that simply isn’t true. It’s not dubious, it’s plain–if it were a fox terrier, you’d notice it because it was biting your ankle. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/160 "2012-02-11T14:28:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Who, besides Santorum, has hung his hat on this? Which words in the two sentences you quoted didn’t you understand? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286/161 "2012-02-11T16:48:02Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Okay: > > I’d also like to note that this is taken from a not-very-long piece, and it is easily found by anyone who glances at it more than very casually. (The quotation is the entire fourth paragraph.) IOW, while \*\*John Mace \*\* is technically 100% within his rights, and seems reasonable, in asking for a quotation to be pulled out of the article for his convenience, it’s also obvious he’s seeking to make some point about the dubiousness of the claim that simply isn’t true. It’s not dubious, it’s plain–if it were a fox terrier, you’d notice it because it was biting your ankle. Nope. Citing something that says the bill might outlaw one form of contraception is not hanging your hat on the “birth control is wrong” issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-obama-pissing-off-catholic-voters-unneccesarily/612286.md?page=9)