# Why is "Oriental" Offensive, when "Asian" is not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870 "2016-09-13T16:35:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/1 "2016-09-13T16:35:58Z")
Latest brouhaha: [MSN story about celebrity I’ve never heard of.](http://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/celebrity/chrissy-teigen-bashes-oriental-salad-dressing-on-twitter/ar-AAiQmDf?li=BBnb2gh) First, I know that ethnic slurs should be a thing of the past. I’m not some clueless ditz who can’t understand why people of color can use a certain word that rhymes with trigger, and I can’t. But I don’t understand why “oriental” is now frowned on. The word oriental was never to my knowledge used in a derogatory fashion. There were other harsher words to express contempt for those of Asian descent. As far as I can tell, it’s because it’s an older term that lumps all Asians together. It doesn’t distinguish Chinese from Japanese from Vietnamese from Kazakhs. Well, fine. But neither does the term “Asians”. And that’s still okay to use. Or is it? I can’t even tell anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/2 "2016-09-13T16:47:47Z")
Since this is about perceptions, let’s move it over to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/3 "2016-09-13T16:50:29Z")
I’m dying to know, too. I would LOVE it if my Asian friends referred to me as an “Occidental.” ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/4 "2016-09-13T16:51:51Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I’m dying to know, too. > > I would LOVE it if my Asian friends referred to me as an “Occidental.” Great! I could someday be an “occidental tourist”. ETA: Others here may have a more complete answer. In the meantime ISTR that it has something to do about other things than humans included by the adjective/noun. A partial answer anyway, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/5 "2016-09-13T16:53:21Z")
Oriental is archaic, eurocentric, and a reminder of the historical subordinate status of asians, especially in western cultures. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/6 "2016-09-13T16:55:16Z")
From what I was told years ago by an Asian friend, the word “Oriental” is used to describe objects, like an Oriental rug…not people. By using the term Oriental, it can be seen as objectification. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/7 "2016-09-13T17:01:46Z")
My wife, descended from Asians, hates the term and for basically the same reason as Chrissy Teigen – she doesn’t want to be described by the same term used to describe a rug. I’m sure I could call her “nice” or “warm,” which are also terms I might use to describe a rug, but those would bring no offense. So perhaps the logic isn’t perfectly rational but it’s consistent. It’s also not too much for me to learn and accommodate, like leaving the toilet seat down. I don’t think my wife would care about the term “oriental dressing” at all. It’s fine with her to describe things with the term. Other people might have different reasons to take offense. As you note, some people don’t like being grouped together with all Asians. They might not like the idea of thoughtlessly lumping together 30 or 40% of the world’s people, hailing from hundreds of distinct cultures, together with one label. This doesn’t bother my wife at all – she views herself, Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Indians, Pakistanis, Kazakhs, etc. as equally Asian and she uses the term all the time. Some people who are interrogating Chrissy Teigen on Twitter about why she finds the term offensive are probably only willing to avoid the term if Chrissy comes up with an answer that satisfies them. Here’s the thing – I don’t need to fully understand why someone else might be offended by a term; I will avoid the offensive term simply because it hurts their feelings. It costs me nothing to accommodate them. I can’t understand people who can’t give their neighbors and acquaintances this tiny consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/8 "2016-09-13T17:08:56Z")
I’ve never figured this out either. The best I can understand is that ‘Oriental’ has something of a more quaint, 1800s, exotic, Fu Manchu sort of vibe to it. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/9 "2016-09-13T17:10:08Z")
I never knew about all this until I learned it here, though it’s been a few years now. I can’t remember when or even why I started using the term Asian. In my mind’s eye “The Orient” referred to the far east. I knew India was part of Asia but I just called those folks Indian. Ditto Pakistan, Nepal, etc. Not sure I get why it’s okay to call an object Oriental yet it’s not okay to refer to people that way. Isn’t the point that it’s wrong to classify the \*area \*by the term? Mind, I’ll do my best to use whatever word is considered polite. I just never heard about it until I heard it here. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/10 "2016-09-13T17:10:09Z")
It’s not offensive so much as dated in the way that “negro” or “colored” are. If you wish to cause offense, there are worse words to use. And others can roll their eyes at you. Reading the article, it looks like she has the same view. And Twitter isn’t news. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/11 "2016-09-13T17:14:17Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > From what I was told years ago by an Asian friend, the word “Oriental” is used to describe objects, like an Oriental rug…not people. By using the term Oriental, it can be seen as objectification. Yet we do that all the time. European butter, American car, African art. all are valid ways to refer to a person. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/12 "2016-09-13T17:14:20Z")
That story seems to be about a salad dressing being labeled as “Oriental” which is an object, like a rug. Nobody was calling whomever that person is “Oriental” ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/13 "2016-09-13T17:15:49Z")
See, long ago as a kid I read the books of the 1920s-30s adventurer Richard Halliburton, especially his **Book of Marvels** , which was a tour of the world’s coolest shit divided into two parts, the Occident and the Orient. I agree with **Tired and Cranky**. I don’t use “Oriental” to describe those from the eastern half of the globe, seeing as most of my friends object. But I have no problem being lumped in with the Africans and the Europeans and the other Americans as an “Occidental.” I think it’s kinda cool in a retro way. Like zeppelins and bathyspheres. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/14 "2016-09-13T17:19:00Z")
Plus it’s sort of a circular argument in that a lot of people _did_ used to be called that. There’s Italian people and Italian dressing and neither is offensive. If Italian _did_ become offensive for a person, “it makes me feel like an object” would not suddenly become a reason why it was initially offensive. I’m not making an argument for what _should_ be offensive: clearly people _are_ offended at it, albeit mildly, and there is a perfectly serviceable alternative available that no one objects to except those who deem it insufficiently specific. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/15 "2016-09-13T17:33:52Z")
“Orient” and “Oriental” reminds me far too much of British 19th century attitudes toward other peoples. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/16 "2016-09-13T17:36:01Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Oriental is archaic, eurocentric, and a reminder of the historical subordinate status of asians, especially in western cultures. This. Its like using the word “colored” to mean African American. Using “colored” used to be the height of good manners, but times and the connotations of words change. (Its a little strange watching “persons of color” come into the lexicon when colored is so archaic). ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/17 "2016-09-13T17:36:33Z")
She’s a moron. She doesn’t even understand what she’s objecting to. ---
**Author:** ![cormac262](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@cormac262](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cormac262)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/18 "2016-09-13T17:59:21Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Using “colored” used to be the height of good manners, but times and the connotations of words change. The best example of your point. I am asian. The BEST thing about my birth certificate is the answer for “race of father”: “yellow”. Classic. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/19 "2016-09-13T18:27:46Z")
> [@cormac262](#): > > The best example of your point. I am asian. The BEST thing about my birth certificate is the answer for “race of father”: “yellow”. > > Classic. “Jesus loves the little children All the children of the world Red, brown, yellow Black and white They are precious in His sight. Jesus loves the little children Of the world.” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/20 "2016-09-13T18:32:25Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > “Jesus loves the little children > All the children of the world > Red, brown, yellow > Black and white > They are precious in His sight. > Jesus loves the little children > Of the world.” We had another discussion on the SDMB a while ago: Why is it that “black” and “white” are OK to use in society, but calling someone “red” or “yellow” or “brown” is not? In every case, it’s a direct reference to someone’s skin color. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870.md?page=2)