# Why is "Oriental" Offensive, when "Asian" is not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870 "2016-09-13T16:35:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/181 "2016-09-26T10:46:08Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > That was going to be my observation. “South Asia” covers places like Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia. Well I already linked the CIA factbook and UN geoscheme, let’s also add [the world bank](http://data.worldbank.org/region/south-asia) to the set of organizations that disagree with you. What would you need to see to convince you that your intuition about what is South Asia is incorrect? * * * There was a time I assumed Mexico would be considered part of Central America. If you’re going to have a “Central America”, surely it would include all the countries that together form the narrow “bridge” connecting the two huge landmasses? But then I discovered I was wrong; I took account of what the actual classification is and went on with my life (and yes I’m aware that Central America is variously considered a separate region, part of North America, or sometimes part of South America. But regardless, Mexico is never considered part of Central America). ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/182 "2016-09-26T16:41:10Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > What about my response makes you think I misparsed you? > > You said _“sometimes using the shorter word is not feasible”_; implying most of the time you prefer the shorter form i.e. “Indian”. > \*“I felt it necessary in this instance \*”[to say “American Indian”] also implies the same thing. > > So what do you think is incorrect about my inferring you prefer to use “Indian”? Actually, I \*prefer \* “Indian,” but in point of fact the need for the term doesn’t come up much these days. I almost always feel compelled to use “American Indian” whenever the context calls for that ethnicity, my preference notwithstanding. “Native American” still doesn’t pass muster. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/183 "2016-09-26T16:43:11Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Well I already linked the CIA factbook and UN geoscheme, let’s also add [the world bank](http://data.worldbank.org/region/south-asia) to the set of organizations that disagree with you. > What would you need to see to convince you that your intuition about what is South Asia is incorrect? > > * * * > > There was a time I assumed Mexico would be considered part of Central America. If you’re going to have a “Central America”, surely it would include all the countries that together form the narrow “bridge” connecting the two huge landmasses? > But then I discovered I was wrong; I took account of what the actual classification is and went on with my life (and yes I’m aware that Central America is variously considered a separate region, part of North America, or sometimes part of South America. But regardless, Mexico is never considered part of Central America). Factoid: Panama was technically part of South America until it won independence from Colombia, in 1903. ---
**Author:** ![Turpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Turpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/184 "2016-09-26T17:32:52Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Not wanting to jump the gun, I must ask if this has any relation to my post which came directly before yours. Sorry to be dense; if you’re making a comparison I’d like to reply but if not, I’ll just shut my pie hole. Nah, I just thought it was funny that for both of us, this came up in everyday conversation. I wasn’t trying to be snide or attack you. But both our posts suggest that people who use the term “Oriental” stand a good chance of either being 84 years old or an ultra right-wing nutjob. Or just a stubborn asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/185 "2016-09-26T19:37:18Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > That was going to be my observation. “South Asia” covers places like Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia. IMO Southeast Asia is Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos - basically most of the places formerly known as “French Indochina” (or in the sphere of influence of same). You could probably argue the Philippines are included there too, in a broad sense. That is absolutely wrong. Factually incorrect. Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia, and yes, the Philippines too, are firmly ensconced in Southeast Asia. No one – and I mean _no one_ – in those countries would consider themselves to be in South Asia or in anywhere else but Southeast Asia. They are all members of the 10-member [Association of Southeast Asian Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations) (Asean). All four of the countries you mentioned were among the founding members back in 1967. Note that they are _not_ members of the [South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_Association_for_Regional_Cooperation), the dominant body for countries in that region. [Here is the generally accepted view of what constitutes Southeast Asia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia) I have spent time in Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore, and they are part of Southeast Asia. Note in that last link, there is a division between island Southeast Asia and mainland Southeast Asia. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/186 "2016-09-26T19:53:21Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > That is absolutely wrong. Factually incorrect. Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia, and yes, the Philippines too, are firmly ensconced in Southeast Asia. No one – and I mean _no one_ – in those countries would consider themselves to be in South Asia or in anywhere else but Southeast Asia. They are all members of the 10-member [Association of Southeast Asian Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations) (Asean). All four of the countries you mentioned were among the founding members back in 1967. Note that they are _not_ members of the [South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_Association_for_Regional_Cooperation), the dominant body for countries in that region. > [Here is the generally accepted view of what constitutes Southeast Asia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia) I have spent time in Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore, and they are part of Southeast Asia. Note in that last link, there is a division between island Southeast Asia and mainland Southeast Asia. Agreed. I have spend a lot of time in that part of the world as well. Definitely Southeast Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/187 "2016-09-27T11:50:22Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Well I already linked the CIA factbook and UN geoscheme, let’s also add [the world bank](http://data.worldbank.org/region/south-asia) to the set of organizations that disagree with you. > What would you need to see to convince you that your intuition about what is South Asia is incorrect? India suddenly being mostly inhabited by people who look like they’re from China/Japan/Korea/The East Indies region, basically. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/188 "2016-09-27T14:44:20Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > India suddenly being mostly inhabited by people who look like they’re from China/Japan/Korea/The East Indies region, basically. Whoever said everyone in a continent must look alike? Anyway, all the facts are against you, all the international agencies and regional organizations, and all you’ve got is your unwillingness to admit you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/189 "2016-09-27T17:14:25Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > (I will post the joke in this thread if you like–it’s a good one and has no reflection on anyone’s ethnicity.) The customer liked it; he did not consider it demeaning to anyone. I love jokes. I would love to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/190 "2016-09-27T18:21:27Z")
Also, Thailand was never part of French Indochina. And I can pretty much guarantee anyone who tries to tell a Thai that it was will get a sock in the nose by said Thai. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/191 "2016-09-27T20:08:33Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > India suddenly being mostly inhabited by people who look like they’re from China/Japan/Korea/The East Indies region, basically. [Indian people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizo_people) [More](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yimchunger) [Etc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_peoples) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/192 "2016-09-27T21:18:19Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I love jokes. I would love to hear it. OK. Here it is, rephrased: The (American) Indian went to the drugstore for the third time in a week to buy a case of cough syrup–24 bottles. The druggist asked, Joe, is there anyone sick at your place?" “No, nobody’s sick.” “Then why do you buy so much cough syrup?” “I like it on pancakes.” ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/193 "2016-09-27T22:17:18Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > OK. Here it is, rephrased: > The (American) Indian went to the drugstore for the third time in a week to buy a case of cough syrup–24 bottles. > The druggist asked, Joe, is there anyone sick at your place?" > “No, nobody’s sick.” > “Then why do you buy so much cough syrup?” > “I like it on pancakes.” I’m torn between “this is the dumbest joke ever” and “brilliant”. I like absurdist humor, so I go for option two :D. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/194 "2016-09-27T22:24:33Z")
Yeah, it really got set up by the frisson of the “yanno, this might be offensive, so would you be offended” part with the dad-joke denouement. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/195 "2016-09-27T23:40:33Z")
Referring to (American) Indians as such [is not offensive](http://www.nativetimes.com/index.php/life/commentary/11389-native-american-vs-american-indian-political-correctness-dishonors-traditional-chiefs-of-old). They find the term “Native American” offensive, saying it’s the white man telling them not to use the term they currently use. Others object just to being called “American,” hence “Native.” There seems to be a divide between the West Coast Indians and the East Coast Native Americans. Which makes sense, since they aren’t the nationality at all. That is actually an example of being “overly PC,” to the point that you don’t check and see if people actually find it offensive. The same goes for insisting on African American, or for people who think Speedy Gonzales is offensive. You’ve got to pay attention to what the actual minority wants, and not fall into the trap of assuming you know better than them. Asians in America do not like the term “Oriental.” So don’t use that. Depending on who you are talking to, you may want to use “Indian” to refer to the indigenous people of pre-colombian America. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/196 "2016-09-28T03:28:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Referring to (American) Indians as such [is not offensive](http://www.nativetimes.com/index.php/life/commentary/11389-native-american-vs-american-indian-political-correctness-dishonors-traditional-chiefs-of-old). They find the term “Native American” offensive, saying it’s the white man telling them not to use the term they currently use. Others object just to being called “American,” hence “Native.” There seems to be a divide between the West Coast Indians and the East Coast Native Americans. Which makes sense, since they aren’t the nationality at all. > > That is actually an example of being “overly PC,” to the point that you don’t check and see if people actually find it offensive. The same goes for insisting on African American, or for people who think Speedy Gonzales is offensive. > > You’ve got to pay attention to what the actual minority wants, and not fall into the trap of assuming you know better than them. > > Asians in America do not like the term “Oriental.” So don’t use that. Depending on who you are talking to, you may want to use “Indian” to refer to the indigenous people of pre-colombian America. Isn’t THAT interesting! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/197 "2016-09-28T07:54:10Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Isn’t THAT interesting! Yes I’d tend to agree. But notice how the link begins: > [@NativeTimes](#): > > One day a reporter was interviewing an East Coast Indian and the reporter said, “Indian” and the East Coast Indian said, “No, we don’t like to be called Indians because we got that name when Columbus thought he landed in India: We prefer to be called Native Americans.” So it starts by conceding some people dislike being called “Indian”, while referring to such people as Indian. Oh and as a bonus the site is called “NativeTimes” / “Native Sun News”. :smack: Regardless, taking the link at face value, it doesn’t seem so black and white either way. Which I, like you, find interesting. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870/198 "2016-09-28T16:26:35Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yes I’d tend to agree. But notice how the link begins: > > So it starts by conceding some people dislike being called “Indian”, while referring to such people as Indian. Oh and as a bonus the site is called “NativeTimes” / “Native Sun News”. :smack: > > Regardless, taking the link at face value, it doesn’t seem so black and white either way. Which I, like you, find interesting. Perhaps. And it’s not so wise to be draconian about it–that is, the PC-type chiding of the uninitiated about how they talk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-oriental-offensive-when-asian-is-not/765870.md?page=9)