# Why is overbooking legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628 "2015-05-09T15:44:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/21 "2015-05-09T22:40:01Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > I don’t know of any other business that’s allowed to take the customers money before the product/service is delivered! I just ordered something from Amazon. My credit card will be charged in the next hour or so, but even with Amazon Prime, i won’t receive the product until Monday or Tuesday. > [@JcWoman](#): > > Once when I was young and dumb I bought a cheap (read: nonrefundable) ticket and ended up not being able to go. The airline kept my money of course and possibly sold my seat again to another passenger. I will say that i would support a consumer protection law that required the airline to refund tickets if they were able to re-sell the seat. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/22 "2015-05-09T22:42:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And Joe will therefore not volunteer to get bumped. Joe gets to his time-critical event, and someone else gets to their non-time-critical destination a bit later but gets their next flight free, the airline saves money… It’s a win for everyone. > > Now, there is still a very small possibility that nobody at all will volunteer to get bumped, and the airline will be forced to choose someone to bump and incur the penalty, and that Joe will happen to be the one they choose. Joe knew that when he bought his ticket, and if that small chance was unacceptable to him, then he should have paid more to fly on an airline with different policies. And how exactly does Joe find this mysterious airline with different policies? Because I just now searched for nonstop flights from Wichita to O’hare on a random date and was given exactly three choices: United, US Airways and American, with no indication of what overbooking policies they may have. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/23 "2015-05-09T22:50:06Z")
Keep in mind that only a _tiny_ fraction of passengers are denied boarding, either voluntarily or involuntarily. [In 2013, approximately 620,514,000 passengers were boarded by US carriers. 467,000 were voluntarily denied boarding, while 57,000 were involuntarily denied boarding.](http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_64.html) So the odds are that you’re going to get where you want to go. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/24 "2015-05-09T23:21:03Z")
And most involuntarily denied boarders are because of grounded planes: weather delays, bomb threats, mechanical difficulties, union worker slowdowns for bargaining leverage, etc. A very tiny percent of a very tiny percent of a tiny percent of denied boarders are due to overbooking. And those are heavily compensated. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/25 "2015-05-09T23:29:12Z")
The numbers i provided were only for overbooking. The footnote reads, “Number of passengers who hold confirmed reservations and are denied boarding (“bumped”) from a flight because it is oversold. These figures include only passengers whose oversold flight departs without them; they do not include passengers affected by canceled, delayed, or diverted flights.” ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/26 "2015-05-09T23:39:27Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > And how exactly does Joe find this mysterious airline with different policies? Because I just now searched for nonstop flights from Wichita to O’hare on a random date and was given exactly three choices: United, US Airways and American, with no indication of what overbooking policies they may have. [Here ya go.](http://www.flyopenair.com/) It’s exactly what you are looking for. If you would rather fly United, US Airways, or American, just pick up the phone, call the airline or a travel agent, and say these magic words “I want to pay the full Y fare.” They will try to talk you out of it, but stand your ground. If necessary, they will kick someone off the flight to make room for you, I guarantee it. Not only that, your ticket will be fully refundable. Change you mind? No problem. Just don’t show up and ask for a refund within a year of purchase. You will get 100% of your money back (except for a travel agent service fee or telephone booking charge.) ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/27 "2015-05-09T23:44:07Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > I don’t know of any other business that’s allowed to take the customers money before the product/service is delivered! If you are a renter, does your landlord collect the rent at the end of the month or the beginning? Did they let you move in before you paid first, last, and security? ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/28 "2015-05-09T23:53:42Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I will say that i would support a consumer protection law that required the airline to refund tickets if they were able to re-sell the seat. Everyone in this thread seems to be assuming that all airline tickets are non-refundable. They are not. Most airlines will be more than happy to sell you a refundable ticket. Just ask. On most online booking sites, there is a box you can check to get refundable tickets. If a consumer wants to protect themselves from having the airline collect money twice for the same seat, just buy refundable tickets. The person who doesn’t use the seat will get their money back. It’s as easy as that. But you want the rock bottom cheapest price. You can have that. But there is a tradeoff. If you don’t show up and there is somebody else who wants to fly on that flight that day, you run the risk that the airline will collect a second fare from someone else. You accepted the discount, those are the terms. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/29 "2015-05-10T00:31:42Z")
This whole thing started waay back in the 1900s with the railroads. A ticket is a license to ride any time you want. Show up any day for any train and if there’s still an empty seat on it when you get there, get on. That how trains worked. Later on they added the idea of a separate reservation. The intent was now you could “get in line” early, ensuring that there’d be a seat on that future date and time when you went out to the train station. It’s mostly a convenience to the railroad, telling them when you intend to exchange your ticket for an actual ride. It’s really no different from a dinner reservation at a restaurant, where the seating and the billing are two totally separate transactions. The airlines simply picked up that traditional ticketing style and used it from the early days in the 1930s when the airlines got going. Fast forward to the 1960s … People realize they can make buy one ticket and make several reservations. That way if the meeting gets out early they have a seat on the early flight, and if it runs late they also have a seat on the late flight. And if it gets out on time as expected, they have a seat on the dinner-time flight. Pretty soon flights are leaving with lots of empty seats. So by the late 60s they change the process to prevent a single ticket from having more than one reservation _at a time_. But there’s no penalty for no-shows. You didn’t use the ticket, so it’s still 100% good for use later today or tomorrow. And if you’re a frequent traveler, there’s no reason not to buy 2 or 3 tickets in advance, make your 3 reservations for early, middle, and late after tomorrows meeting, then actually use the one ticket that fits your actual schedule, and save the other 2 unused tickets for next week. But one more next week to have 3 reservations for the next week. Lather, rinse, repeat. The next innovation to offset this problem is the oversale. We still have tickets separate from reservations. But now we book more reservations than we have seats. Because lots of people are making more reservations than they intend to use. And lots of people with only a single reservation flake for whatever reason, whether their fault, the airlines, fault, or just back luck. So having a few extra reservations helps fill the airplane. Just about now (1978) deregulation hits and the industry turns from a public utility with all prices, routes, and schedules controlled by the government into a discounting mad-cap free-for-all. The airlines chop prices and make up for it with massive overselling to ensure the airplane always goes out full. The folks left behind bought the cheapest tickets, are price-only disloyal shoppers, so who cares if we piss them off. Or so some marketing geniuses said. Well, Congress got into the act and says now there’s got to be denied boarding compensation. As explained by folks upthread. So now for the airline, overbooking is no longer a one-way bet. If they overdo it, they pay. The amount of actual denied boarding plunges to a very small fraction of 1 percent. The next series of innovations in the 1990s are the change-restricted partly non-refundable tickets. Which are really about firming up the demand so there’s less need to overbook. Presumably folks willing to risk part of their fare if they no-show will be more careful about not missing the flight. Then in the 2000s we got the internet. Which lets us sell the last seat at the last minute for cheap. And which enables total comparison shopping by all the customers. The result of that is every airplane is planned to be damn near full all the time. Which means that if a person misses their flight, or if a flight cancels and 150 people miss their flight, there are very few seats available later to accommodate those folks. I agree with the folks who said “the current system doesn’t make sense”. But it’s helpful to understand the current system wasn’t designed from scratch to be as it is. It’s the result of about 10 years of evolution. Nobody would build this cockamamie set of pickpocketing and counter-pickpocketing. Just like nobody would design an internet with no security and no funding mechanism, so the whole thing is rampant with marauding bands of criminals and the legitimate business parts are supported by pop-up advertising and spam. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/30 "2015-05-10T00:41:29Z")
I accidentally hit post too soon and some of what I wrote was added during the edit window and I ran out of time. Errata: “Well, Congress got into the act …” should read “Well, disloyal customers are also voters. So Congress got into the act …” “It’s the result of about 10 years of evolution.” should read “It’s the result of about 100 years of evolution.” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/31 "2015-05-10T03:51:01Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > How does NOT getting the seat that you paid for allow for more flexibility? Joe that gets bumped from his paid seat is not going to see it as flexible when he misses his daughters wedding. > > It’s horse shit. > > If the general you is so disorganized that they can’t get to the airport to get their seat, that’s their problem. Sure, let others that are flying standby grab it at an increased cost. Joe had better be pretty damned lucky if he is booking his just-barely-in-time ticket to his daughter’s wedding, because he could be delayed weather, mechanical difficulties, unplanned diversion, missed connections, medical or security emergencies, or any of the literally countless number of things that cause delayed arrivals by the thousands daily. This isn’t driving your car down the block to 7-11. This is a complex international system that somehow manages to move EIGHT MILLION people a day to 42,000 airports around the world with some level of reliability. If Joe is afraid something could go wrong, he should be. 21% of US flights delayed and 3% are cancelled. If you are flying in to your daughter’s wedding, take an extra day off work and fly in the day before. Being bumped is just a tiny part of this whole equation, and one that rarely comes up. I am a relatively frequent flyer, and I would JUMP at a chance to get airline vouchers-- especially on the way home. But while I’ve had plenty of delayed flights and a few cancellations, I’ve never once been able to get bumped. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/32 "2015-05-10T04:38:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And Joe will therefore not volunteer to get bumped. Joe gets to his time-critical event, and someone else gets to their non-time-critical destination a bit later but gets their next flight free, the airline saves money… It’s a win for everyone. > > Now, there is still a very small possibility that nobody at all will volunteer to get bumped, and the airline will be forced to choose someone to bump and incur the penalty, and that Joe will happen to be the one they choose. Joe knew that when he bought his ticket, and if that small chance was unacceptable to him, then he should have paid more to fly on an airline with different policies. Yup, this pretty much. The bump offer works nearly all the time - there is nearly always someone willing to wait for a later flight for a reward. Along with some of the other posters in this thread - I fly pretty regularly, I’ve never been flat out denied. And a couple of times I’m travelling for business flying in the day before an engagement - sure, I’ll be happy to take a flight a few hours later for some airline credits that I can keep personally. And it works the other way, too. Just a few months ago I had a flight booked for a business trip. I actually got to the airport, checked in, got through security and was waiting at the gate when I got a call - customer is snowed in, business meeting cancelled. I was able to cancel my booking literally 45 minutes before boarding and got a full refund (which I won’t pretend always happens.) I had been prepared to surrender the cost of the ticket as I was cancelling very late. But the airline was willing to do it as they had another potential passenger wanting to get on that flight. Everybody wins here - me, I don’t have to expense a flight I didn’t take. Person who took my seat gets the flight they wanted. Airline isn’t out any money and got some good customer service karma from helping me and said other person. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/33 "2015-05-10T05:14:44Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > Also don’t forget that when you book a plane ticket the airline bills your credit card immediately instead of waiting until you actually use the ticket. I don’t know of any other business that’s allowed to take the customers money before the product/service is delivered! Concert and theater tickets (including movie theaters) , tickets to sporting events, bus tickets, train tickets, reservations at some restaurants. The overselling/bumping may be unique to airlines, but not billing when the tickets are sold. (and IME , most tickets do not allow for a refund if you don’t show up for the baseball game or the concert) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/34 "2015-05-10T10:20:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Being bumped is just a tiny part of this whole equation, and one that rarely comes up. I am a relatively frequent flyer, and I would JUMP at a chance to get airline vouchers-- especially on the way home. But while I’ve had plenty of delayed flights and a few cancellations, I’ve never once been able to get bumped. Or, get the discount up-front. One of my friends flies Qantus full fair on the time-critical leg (where he has to get to work on time), and Virgin discount on the reverse leg – where an extra 6-24 hours isn’t going to cause problems. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/35 "2015-05-10T12:27:55Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Being bumped is just a tiny part of this whole equation, and one that rarely comes up. I am a relatively frequent flyer, and I would JUMP at a chance to get airline vouchers-- especially on the way home. But while I’ve had plenty of delayed flights and a few cancellations, I’ve never once been able to get bumped. Everyone is different sven. I’ve had plenty of opportunity to get a free ticket. Never taken it. According to some stats I’ve seen here, people aren’t bumped as often as I thought (I only fly about once a year) My cousin was bumped when she was flying with my Wife and I . There was know way we could let that happen (she had a broken kneecap at the time) I was going to give them my ticket. In any case, it would have been a mess. We raised a bit of a stink, and she did get on. What was weird is that there where two flight airline employees dead heading (in first class yet) and a couple of empty seats on the plan. Kind of pissed me off. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/36 "2015-05-10T12:53:43Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > A plane that flies with paid seats that are empty is going to save the airline money. That could bring prices down. But that is not the relevant comparison to be made here. What we’re interested in for the sake of the present discussion is not full plane flying versus plane with soem empty seats flying; it’s, ceteris paribus, plane of an airline with an overbooking policy flying versus plane of an airline with an “we never overbook” policy flying. And once you make that comparison, you’ll see that the latter will have to charge more to pay for the disadvantages of a no-overbooking policy. The choice is yours. You are free to choose among airlines, some (although admittedly not very many) do have a no-overbooking policy in place. What is more, even those airlines that overbook do offer fare classes where you can be pretty certain that efforts will be made to get you on board in case of overbooking, i.e., that you’re not going to be the one who gets bumped. On economy, these are typically fare classes Y and B. Of course, if you book an el cheapo rock bottom ticket, economy fare class L with a thousand strings attached because that’s the advertised “guaranteed lowest fare” on your travel website, then you are going to get what you pay for. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/37 "2015-05-10T12:55:42Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > We raised a bit of a stink, and she did get on. What was weird is that there where two flight airline employees dead heading (in first class yet) and a couple of empty seats on the plan. Kind of pissed me off. Why is it weird that there were airline employees deadheading? They take priority over pretty much everyone because there’s another flight down the line that can’t take off without them. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/38 "2015-05-10T14:06:52Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Concert and theater tickets (including movie theaters) , tickets to sporting events, bus tickets, train tickets, reservations at some restaurants. The overselling/bumping may be unique to airlines, but not billing when the tickets are sold. (and IME , most tickets do not allow for a refund if you don’t show up for the baseball game or the concert) Hotels do it as well, but have less opportunity. But I’ve been bumped from a booked hotel room (a business booking even). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/39 "2015-05-10T14:54:31Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Why is it weird that there were airline employees deadheading? They take priority over pretty much everyone because there’s another flight down the line that can’t take off without them. That makes good sense. I didn’t think about it. My Wife has a friend that is a stewardess (or whatever the PC is for it today) and she dead headed from Denver to Chicago a lot. That’s one hell of a commute. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/40 "2015-05-10T23:46:31Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > … Also don’t forget that when you book a plane ticket the airline bills your credit card immediately instead of waiting until you actually use the ticket. I don’t know of any other business that’s allowed to take the customers money before the product/service is delivered! Poster \*\*doreen \*\*already addressed this pretty well. But there’s more. The credit card companies do \*\*not \*\*in fact give the money to the airline right away. At least not all of it. They hold back about 10% of the money for themselves, and only give that to the airline a few days \*after \*the travel is flown. So the airline does get paid 90% up front, then delivers the goods a month or whatever later, then gets paid the last 10% a few days later. Less of course the credit card company’s percentage which they take from all merchants, large or small. This delayed-partial-payment process is called “hold back”. And the credit card companies do it because Congress passed another law demanded by voter/passengers which is says that if an airline shuts down, the credit card company is on the hook to refund all the passengers’ money, even if they can’t get any of it back from the now-defunct airline. So to protect themselves from the occasional shutdown of a small airline, they skim a hefty percentage off the top of every airline every day. Credit card companies have in fact administered the \*coup de grace \*to more than one airline by getting nervous, choosing to unilaterally increase the holdback, thereby killing 100% of the airline’s cash flow for a few days. Which immediately pitches a company already on thin ice into the freezing water. The next day they have no money to buy fuel or make payroll and the game is over, the doors close for good, and the passengers are stranded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628.md?page=3)