# Why is overbooking legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628 "2015-05-09T15:44:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/41 "2015-05-11T01:42:33Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Keep in mind that only a _tiny_ fraction of passengers are denied boarding, either voluntarily or involuntarily. [In 2013, approximately 620,514,000 passengers were boarded by US carriers. 467,000 were voluntarily denied boarding, while 57,000 were involuntarily denied boarding.](http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_64.html) So the odds are that you’re going to get where you want to go. Thank you for those data. It looks like the percentage of involuntary denials increased in the 90s, peaked in 1998, and has been decreasing since. I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/42 "2015-05-11T02:11:08Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Thank you for those data. It looks like the percentage of involuntary denials increased in the 90s, peaked in 1998, and has been decreasing since. I wonder why. I’d wager that it’s at least partly due to the improvement in computer tracking of flight and passenger data, and increasingly sophisticated algorithms for predicting no-shows based on a whole range of variables such as: time of year; day of week; time of day; origin airport; destination airport; plane size; weather; holidays; etc., etc., etc. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/43 "2015-05-11T04:12:34Z")
How do overseas airlines manage this without constantly bumping passengers? I have lived in Australia, europe, Japan and now thailand and taken many many domestic and international flights in all those places. It’s only ever in the US I have heard announcements asking passengers to voluntarily give up flights for incentives. Somehow outside the US they can manage this, and have plenty of budget airlines and low ticket costs without seeming to overbook. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/44 "2015-05-11T04:22:06Z")
A site like [this one](http://www.airpassengerrights.eu/en/your-rights-a-summary.html) describes what happens on overbooked flight; basically the same thing as in the US. First, they look for volunteers who get whatever compensation they agree to. Second, people are denied boarding involuntarily, in exchange for compensation defined by law. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/45 "2015-05-11T04:27:30Z")
And [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Delay_Compensation_Regulation) is the Wikipedia article on the European law. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/46 "2015-05-11T05:22:01Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > How do overseas airlines manage this without constantly bumping passengers? > > I have lived in Australia, europe, Japan and now thailand and taken many many domestic and international flights in all those places. It’s only ever in the US I have heard announcements asking passengers to voluntarily give up flights for incentives. > > Somehow outside the US they can manage this, and have plenty of budget airlines and low ticket costs without seeming to overbook. My daughter works in the industry, and gets discount standby tickets (me too.) She used to work in Europe, and their flights are not nearly as full as those in the US. US flights are so full because airlines have been pulling planes out of service to increase the loads on the existing planes, which is more profitable. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/47 "2015-05-11T05:25:48Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Being bumped is just a tiny part of this whole equation, and one that rarely comes up. I am a relatively frequent flyer, and I would JUMP at a chance to get airline vouchers-- especially on the way home. But while I’ve had plenty of delayed flights and a few cancellations, I’ve never once been able to get bumped. If Joe shows up well ahead of time, he also is less likely to get bumped. My wife is an expert at getting bumped, especially on Southwest. She once got bumped to a new connecting flight, and managed to volunteer to get bumped on that one. Very profitable. But I’ve seen far fewer instances of them asking for volunteers lately. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/48 "2015-05-11T05:49:12Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > A site like [this one](http://www.airpassengerrights.eu/en/your-rights-a-summary.html) describes what happens on overbooked flight; basically the same thing as in the US. First, they look for volunteers who get whatever compensation they agree to. Second, people are denied boarding involuntarily, in exchange for compensation defined by law. The law may be the same, but it happens far less often. 4 years living in london, 2 years in Japan, 2 years in thailand. never once heard them asking someone to give up a seat on a flight in all that time. while in contrast EVERY single time I fly domestically within US I hear announcements asking people to give up seats. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/49 "2015-05-11T07:50:08Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > How do overseas airlines manage this without constantly bumping passengers? > > I have lived in Australia, europe, Japan and now thailand and taken many many domestic and international flights in all those places. It’s only ever in the US I have heard announcements asking passengers to voluntarily give up flights for incentives. > > Somehow outside the US they can manage this, and have plenty of budget airlines and low ticket costs without seeming to overbook. No, they don’t. They dump people over here too, the overbooking policies are the same, and I vaguely remember that even the guarantees given to dumped passengers are similar. I don’t fly, but I did have friends being dumped. I was surprised to read in this thread how rare it apparently is, until someone stated that dumping peaked during the 90s, which is in fact when I remember it happening regularly. I remember they once dumped half of the French delegation flying for the negotiation of a really major international treaty (an ex was part of the team), which amazed me and made me wonder how they decided on who would get dumped. But again, that was in the mid 90s. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/50 "2015-05-11T12:21:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If Joe shows up well ahead of time, he also is less likely to get bumped. > My wife is an expert at getting bumped, especially on Southwest. She once got bumped to a new connecting flight, and managed to volunteer to get bumped on that one. Very profitable. But I’ve seen far fewer instances of them asking for volunteers lately. I’m not sure if it’s a showing-up early thing or a checking-in early thing. I know I once wasn’t able to check in ahead of time online, and when I arrived at the airport I didn’t have a seat assignment. But I don’t remember when I tried to check in. It can be profitable, yes, although that depends on how valuable your time is. That’s why they auction off the bumping at rates well below those required for involuntary bumps. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/51 "2015-05-11T19:15:11Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The terms of sale include the possibility of having to refuse a seat. There’s no way to make that illegal - the airline is providing service on its own terms. > … Of course there is – the government can regulate the contracts. Th choose not to, however, for reasons we can all bitch and moan about, but some of the reasons are valid. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/52 "2015-05-11T19:26:22Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I’m not sure if it’s a showing-up early thing or a checking-in early thing. I know I once wasn’t able to check in ahead of time online, and when I arrived at the airport I didn’t have a seat assignment. But I don’t remember when I tried to check in. They often lose seat assignments when they change equipment. I’ve never not been able to check in, but often have not had a seat assignment. On United it seems that if they put you in steerage they don’t want to tell you until the last minute. Did you get bumped in this case, or just a bad seat? > [@](#): > > It can be profitable, yes, although that depends on how valuable your time is. That’s why they auction off the bumping at rates well below those required for involuntary bumps. Yup. I’ve heard them go up a few steps before they found someone. These days it is a bit tougher since it might not be possible to get the bumpee on a convenient but fully booked flight. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/53 "2015-05-11T19:38:48Z")
I was on a flight the day before Thanksgiving. The gate agent started her pitch for volunteers at a small amount of money but eventually raised the stakes to quite a decent amount of money (although I can’t remember how much). I didn’t take it, as I wanted to go home and I was out of town, but if you’re based there, it might be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/54 "2015-05-11T19:54:59Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > If you would rather fly United, US Airways, or American, just pick up the phone, call the airline or a travel agent, and say these magic words “I want to pay the full Y fare.” They will try to talk you out of it, but stand your ground. If necessary, they will kick someone off the flight to make room for you, I guarantee it. Not only that, your ticket will be fully refundable. Change you mind? No problem. Just don’t show up and ask for a refund within a year of purchase. You will get 100% of your money back (except for a travel agent service fee or telephone booking charge.) Here’s your answer. Y fare. Business travelers keeps airlines going and they change all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/55 "2015-05-11T20:17:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > They often lose seat assignments when they change equipment. I’ve never not been able to check in, but often have not had a seat assignment. On United it seems that if they put you in steerage they don’t want to tell you until the last minute. > Did you get bumped in this case, or just a bad seat? I got on. But it was very clearly after they had a no-show. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628/56 "2015-05-11T20:29:09Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Here’s your answer. Y fare. Business travelers keeps airlines going and they change all the time. Double +1. If you want to be treated like a real person instead of a head of cattle, fly on a full fare ticket. Better yet, be a top-tier member of your favorite airline’s frequent flyer program. It’s the only way to fly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-overbooking-legal/719628.md?page=2)