# Why is politics in the US more faith based. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076 "2014-12-24T01:52:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/21 "2014-12-25T01:58:44Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I have yet to find a republican in US in person or on the internet subscribing to liberal views or liberal subscribing to republican. > > If you said I support republican views but the right to smoke pot or tougher gun control and police under the spotlight more you would get funny looks. > > Or liberal saying I support liberal views but not gay marriage, abortion and support the death penalty.You would get funny looks. You didn’t actually answer his question. In fact, you didn’t even respond to it. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/22 "2014-12-25T02:52:05Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I think many of the specific examples of the religious right advocating certain political policies, policies not strictly limited to religion is often due to the belief that the rise of the secular state crowds out religiosity. The secular State becomes the faith of people. The history of Northern European social democratic states confirms this belief to an extent. Lower taxes does prevent less offshoring; it also prevents the state getting its hands on excess resources, resources which it then uses to increase its own power over individuals. Thus reducing religiosity. If that where true the US should have universal health care, more of welfare state and less of a gun culture. Killing is mortal sin. And Europe should have more of a gun culture ,no universal health care and little to no welfare state. Well class welfare and racism is lot more wide spread in US than Europe. I have little doubt conservative vote or liberal vote has any thing to do with religion other than issues like gay marriage, abortion,sex,drugs,prostitution,drinking alcohol and such. Has if US is really religious they would be socially conservative but liberal when comes to health care,poor and racism. And I have not seen this split in the US or the electoral system would be changed and the US and Europe would be very different. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/23 "2014-12-25T03:04:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Lower taxes don’t seem to have a demonstrable impact on offshoring. The US manufacturing sector is no better off than those of the major European economies, despite far lower individual tax rates and lower _effective_ corporate tax rates. Lower _wages_ prevent offshoring, but of course those have their own downsides. Lot of this is because of globalization movement sponsored by both liberal and conservative saying wake up people we are global like all G summit meetings.To make more profit. And protectionism is over. So businesses can move easy in and out. But the FCC and CRT control TV ,radio, music,movies and internet for preserving local culture.:eek::eek: Likewise people saying American Netflix has more stuff than the Canadian Netflix. Or you cannot watch doctor Who in UK on youtube because of your IP address. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/24 "2014-12-25T03:32:26Z")
Token Christian religionism is an outgrowth of the malleability and general wussiness of American politicians. There is very little to gain from admitting you aren’t religious, but (apparently) a great deal to lose. American politicians are the type to play out every position they could take in front of a focus group of people from all demographic backgrounds. To get the votes from a particular group, they will stake whatever position is dictated by the focus group. It’s a little surprising to hear, but the reason Democrats don’t come out and say “I am an atheist” is because many liberals are still Christian. Blacks and latinos, for example, identify heavily as Christians and these are groups that the Democrats rely on to win elections. What is there to gain from admitting a political liability? European voting blocs will be considerably more homogenous, allowing for more nuance (and honesty) in their politicians. Americans have very little idea of who their elected representatives really are. That is how the politicos want it. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/25 "2014-12-25T04:42:18Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > If you said you supported gays and lesbians, death penalty ,end the drug war,support welfare, anti- abortion ,anti-guns ,tough border control you would get some strange looks that you moved to the US.They would say are you from the UK. Uh, that constellation of positions sounds like pretty much exactly my position (except that I’d restrict the death penalty to treason and related anti-state crimes). Educated upper middle-class people tend to be strongly partisan, but you might be surprised: as you move further down the education & income scale, you’re more likely to meet people who don’t line up neatly with the Republican or Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/26 "2014-12-25T06:28:24Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > What other countries are you comparing The United States to? > [@sweat209](#): > > I have yet to find a republican in US in person or on the internet subscribing to liberal views or liberal subscribing to republican. > > If you said I support republican views but the right to smoke pot or tougher gun control and police under the spotlight more you would get funny looks. > > Or liberal saying I support liberal views but not gay marriage, abortion and support the death penalty.You would get funny looks. English. Do. You. Speak. It.? You responded to a post asking you for the names of countries, and your response contains not a single country. There are plenty of Republicans who support legalizing pot and you’ll find plenty of Democrats who support the death penalty, including the current president of the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/27 "2014-12-25T06:41:32Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Well class welfare and racism is lot more wide spread in US than Europe. I’m sorry but that statement is simply and completely inaccurate-Europe on average is far more racist than the United States is. To be fair, the reverse was the true up until the last half-century or so when American blacks could expect to be better treated in Paris or Berlin than back home, but with the advant of mass non-white immigration to Europe and changes in American racial attitudes, that is no longer the case. A mistaken notion apparent in this thread is the view of Europe as some sort of a continent-sized Amsterdam or Stockholm to be used as a foil against the United States which is Texas writ large with the Europeans all being enlightened secular humanists happily smoking pot with their mistresses in quiet cafes whilst discussing Sartre in half-dozen languages while Americans are obese Bible-thumping rednecks munching on hamburgers and chicken fried staek in McDonalds and cruising town ten-lane Interstates in gigantic SUVs. Obviously this view is false considering that Europe is an _entire continent_ of which roughly half is only now emerging from decades of totalitarian Communist rule and even the other half is remarkably diverse. For instance how many Dopers are aware of the existence of the Norwegian and Dutch Bible Belts? While Europe on average definitely is more in favour of social welfare programs than the United States due to the traditions of _dirgiesme_ or the social market economy, this is not the case with social issues-quite a few European countries such as Germany have yet to legalize gay marriage and American states compared respectably in timing to European countries which did so. This is not to even consider abortion where most countries have far more enlightened and restrictive laws-to most American liberals an abortion ban at 20 weeks in anathema, yet France puts the cut-off mark at 12 weeks and Germany at the end of the first trimaster (to be fair these countries fund it by public health insurance). And finally of course, popular parties such as the UKIP, FN, Swedish Democrats, or PVV espouse nativist rhetoric to rival that of any Tea Party Congressman in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/28 "2014-12-25T08:19:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They’re just names. Aside from the party names, religion plays very little role in the politics of Germany. The UK has a state religion, but religion has even less of a political role there. I can’t make head or tails of much of what the OP is saying, but it is certainly true that religion has more influence in US politics than it does in most other “secular democracies”. Yes and no; it doesn’t get waved around, but it does influence decisions in the background. The main difference is that in the US it gets waved around much more: it’s a difference in how the relationship is presented. Also, look at the specific example you were answering to: when both parties claim to have a Christian background, the focus will be on the differences, they won’t be accusing each other of being “not Christian enough”. As for people voting “Y because I am X”, or for card-carrying people toeing the party line - if you think that doesn’t happen elsewhere, I have a few million people I can introduce you to. The first one is actually a popular source for slogans. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/29 "2014-12-26T14:18:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > . This is not to even consider abortion where most countries have far more enlightened and restrictive laws-to most American liberals an abortion ban at 20 weeks in anathema, yet France puts the cut-off mark at 12 weeks and Germany at the end of the first trimaster (to be fair these countries fund it by public health insurance). Don’t forget Poland. Or Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/30 "2014-12-27T01:02:25Z")
> [@](#): > > If you said you supported gays and lesbians, death penalty ,end the drug war,support welfare, anti- abortion ,anti-guns ,tough border control you would get some strange looks that you moved to the US.They would say are you from the UK. > [@](#): > > Uh, that constellation of positions sounds like pretty much exactly my position (except that I’d restrict the death penalty to treason and related anti-state crimes). > > Educated upper middle-class people tend to be strongly partisan, but you might be surprised: as you move further down the education & income scale, you’re more likely to meet people who don’t line up neatly with the Republican or Democratic party. What I’m describing is mostly liberal with some conservative views or conservative with some liberal or centrist party or mix views.This is more common among people in Europe and Canada than the US. In the US it is more divided country. Part that may be because of history where welfare and universal health in US is viewed more of communism and socialism thing, that we have gone to wars with in many countries. Where in Canada ,UK and Europe it is viewed as other government agency. So even fact the US is religious country had communism and socialism never exited it is possible the right wing party backed by church may have set up universal health or more welfare may be not to the degree too much but not like what US has today. Do not forget the church did not like idea people working on the weekend or going mall or store on the weekend. In the church eye the weekend was about family and the church not working and shopping.The businesses like it has way to make more money. Other think why US may be like that is political party. Remember the democratic party would be conservative party in Canada or Europe.The republican party would be ultra conservative in Canada or Europe. Canada before Stephen Harper was centrist country now country is split left NDP and right conservative. There is hope a good leader may bring people to centrist part with new liberal government. Where some of the NDP support and conservative support will vote for liberal government next election. The US politics is more messy and complex has country been divided for long time. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/31 "2014-12-27T01:13:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sorry but that statement is simply and completely inaccurate-Europe on average is far more racist than the United States is. To be fair, the reverse was the true up until the last half-century or so when American blacks could expect to be better treated in Paris or Berlin than back home, but with the advant of mass non-white immigration to Europe and changes in American racial attitudes, that is no longer the case. A lot Europe country has of late is experiencing lots of blacks and Asians moving there leading to street riots and problems over poverty ,right to get job and education and Islamic law. Where in US not really experiencing the problems over poverty ,right to get job and education and Islamic law. Some of this can be viewed has racism. Where Europe has more racism now. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/32 "2014-12-27T01:47:22Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > After traveling to other countries, I have notice politics in the US are very different than other countries. It is more you are a republican or democratic. I think other countries look at politics more scientific where in US more faith based. > > I wonder because other countries have other political parties thus may be it educates the public not to follower party line. > > There is lot more picking and choosing. > > Well some members may say sweat209 we have the libertarian party and independent party but they are not true party and only a small minority vote for them. > > The libertarian party with lot of members backed by the tea party supporters is mostly anti-government welfare and speeding… We’re not too hot on the spending, either. I personally think only agnostics and atheists should be allowed to vote. Anyone who votes for someone based on whether that person shares the same superstitions is a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/33 "2014-12-27T02:08:04Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > A lot Europe country has of late is experiencing lots of blacks and Asians moving there leading to street riots and problems over poverty ,right to get job and education and Islamic law. > > Where in US not really experiencing the problems over poverty ,right to get job and education and Islamic law. > > Some of this can be viewed has racism. > > Where Europe has more racism now. Racist bullshit. Nowhere in Europe is anything ruled by “Islamic law” not even those countries which are predominantly Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/34 "2014-12-27T05:36:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Racist bullshit. Racist bullshit. (Did I win the debate?) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/35 "2014-12-27T05:44:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Racist bullshit. > > Nowhere in Europe is anything ruled by “Islamic law” not even those countries which are predominantly Muslim. No, but there are countries in Europe which are having issues over some groups (not necessarily immigrants, converts tend to be “more papist than the Pope”) wanting to apply Sharia law instead of the laws of the country. So yes, there are some - SOME - locations in Europe having some - SOME - issues over Islamic law. There are also locations which have done things such as add a halal line to the local municipal abbatoir without more trouble than that involved in making sure that the requirements are actually being fulfilled, or others were you may see the same headscarf worn in slightly different ways by Christian and Muslim women. But this doesn’t make international headlines; at most, the first will produce a small notice in the local newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/36 "2014-12-27T08:23:46Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > A lot Europe country has of late is experiencing lots of blacks and Asians moving there leading to street riots and problems over poverty ,right to get job and education and Islamic law. > > Where in US not really experiencing the problems over poverty ,right to get job and education and Islamic law. > > Some of this can be viewed has racism. > > Where Europe has more racism now. Erhm pretty sure concerns over the poverty of large minority groups and the lack of good job opportunities for them are a big issue in the United States right now. > [@Clothahump](#): > > We’re not too hot on the spending, either. > > I personally think only agnostics and atheists should be allowed to vote. Anyone who votes for someone based on whether that person shares the same superstitions is a fool. In most of the West, this would mean the dominance of the centre-left parties. And the majority of religious voters in the United States and elsewhere are perfectly willing to vote for someone not of their own religion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/37 "2014-12-28T16:51:06Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And the majority of religious voters in the United States and elsewhere are perfectly willing to vote for someone not of their own religion. Well, [only just](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/17/atheist-muslim-presidential-candidate_n_4802608.html). Unless you’re counting different Christian denominations as other religions. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/38 "2014-12-30T02:40:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany, is a member of the Christian Democratic Union party. Their Bavarian counterpart is the Christian Social Union party > > They’re just names. Aside from the party names, religion plays very little role in the politics of Germany. The UK has a state religion, but religion has even less of a political role there. I can’t make head or tails of much of what the OP is saying, but it is certainly true that religion has more influence in US politics than it does in most other “secular democracies”. I asked here about this perhaps ten years ago or so. As it was explained to me then, the term _Christian_ in the names of these parties was originally intended to be inclusive of both Catholics and Protestants, rather than one or the other. After all, the early modern era, many regions and countries in Europe had experienced brutal sectarian wars, and atrocities on both sides. Probably one reason that evangelical Protestant Christianity has become such a force in conservative politics here is because these Christians in particular feel that they are being marginalized by what they perceive to be a dominant culture of secular humanism, emanating largely from Hollywood and then also from left-leaning elites generally. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/39 "2015-01-03T06:04:13Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I think many of the specific examples of the religious right advocating certain political policies, policies not strictly limited to religion is often due to the belief that the rise of the secular state crowds out religiosity. The secular State becomes the faith of people. The history of Northern European social democratic states confirms this belief to an extent. Lower taxes does prevent less offshoring; it also prevents the state getting its hands on excess resources, resources which it then uses to increase its own power over individuals. Thus reducing religiosity. I think this is sort of an excuse on the part of some, and a sort of propaganda to keep the church folks in line. Yeah, some people believe this, because they are jealous or suspicious of the state. But those serve as “useful idiots” to the “business” lobby, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076/40 "2015-01-04T06:40:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, [only just](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/17/atheist-muslim-presidential-candidate_n_4802608.html). Unless you’re counting different Christian denominations as other religions. Muslims and atheists have yet to be fully accepted as “mainstream” by a large segment of the population not so much because they aren’t Christian as because the former are seen as terrorists and the latter as communists and/or amoral hedonists, but its clear considering the number for Jews and Mormons, than the American people don’t object in principle to voting for someone who isn’t a Christian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-politics-in-the-us-more-faith-based/708076.md?page=3)