# Why is population growth rarely discussed as a factor in climate change? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-population-growth-rarely-discussed-as-a-factor-in-climate-change/825350 "2018-11-30T20:26:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-population-growth-rarely-discussed-as-a-factor-in-climate-change/825350/21 "2018-12-03T19:12:25Z")
> [@XT](#): > > And it’s a problem that’s already solving itself. Only a few very poor nations, generally in Africa are well above the global average of 2-3 children per couple, and even in those countries the shift is downward, just not as fast since conditions in those countries are still bad. For a view on this that isn’t about someone ignoring you with a yawn, I suggest this video by Hans Rosling : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E) I saw a video (might even be the one you linked), where Rosling points out that despite the whole cycle of poverty being very difficult to escape, it actually does not take much increase in income to result in significant improvements in standard of living. Like literally going from 2 USD per day to 3 USD will see this. Now this _does_ have a real affect on the environment and climate change. All the newly escaped from poverty increase their carbon footprint substantially and exponentially. 2 billion extra small motorcycles with their two stroke engines won’t help CO2 levels decrease. Cheap tubewells and filters permit the formerly poor to bypass corrupt and inefficient municipal entities and get water into home directly, whicn fucks up aquifers and ground water. While the global working class and poor have embraced solar energy, the chemicals used in the manufacture of solar cells are horrible, they literally cause water to catch fire. At the end of the day, it’s prosperity, as you say. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-population-growth-rarely-discussed-as-a-factor-in-climate-change/825350/22 "2018-12-03T19:53:39Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I have no idea how you get your conclusions out of what was posted there. ISTM that AK84 is just pointing out the reality (my one quibble with his post is that I did address public health as a big reason for the population growth, I just tied it to prosperity which I think is a better measure). Unless your issue is with my post? No, it was not with your post. What \*\*AK84 \*\*is going on was as I suspected as he posted in his latest post. Obviously he is also missing the point that Hans Rosling also dealt with this issue and Rosling’s point is that controlling population is happening by increasing the prosperity of nations. Now, as noted many times before (and Rosling also touches on emissions), \*\*AK84 _is going on like if no changes are happening_ or will take place on the reduction of pollution front while increasing the standards of living. As pointed before, it does not follow that nations will be destined to increase the human released global warming gases. > **[The Changing Face of Economic Growth: How Carbon Emissions are No Longer the...](https://www.sustainabilityx.co/post/the-changing-face-of-economic-growth-how-carbon-emissions-are-no-longer-the-driving-force)** > > Exploring the shift towards renewable energy and clean technologies as drivers of economic growth and sustainable development... **Again** , as it was ignored: \*\*AK84 \*\*and others are indeed denying in the recent posts that humans (in developed nations) did control waterborne diseases, control acid rain, control phosphates in rivers and lakes, etc, with government and private enterprise efforts. It will be harder with the issue of global warming, but past efforts tell us that it is not impossible. Past efforts that BTW, as others have noticed before, did not take us back to the stone age as many critics of those efforts told us was going to take place or implied about. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-population-growth-rarely-discussed-as-a-factor-in-climate-change/825350/23 "2018-12-03T23:24:05Z")
Article length treatment by climate journalist about why he rarely writes about population. [I’m an environmental journalist, but I never write about overpopulation. Here’s why. Since you asked (many times).](https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/9/26/16356524/the-population-question) tl;dr “Female empowerment is the most effective population control strategy. So ask about that.” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-population-growth-rarely-discussed-as-a-factor-in-climate-change/825350/24 "2018-12-04T00:32:45Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What options are there for discussion? Wait for a famine? Start another world war? Promote a lot of little wars? Pestilence? Pandemic? Encourage suicide? Voluntary sterilization? These are all time-tested ways of decreasing population growth. I imagine the conversation might get a little testy from time to time. If the population does hit 11 billion and the sea level does rise and desertification increase there will probably be enough migration to trigger many wars. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-population-growth-rarely-discussed-as-a-factor-in-climate-change/825350/25 "2018-12-04T01:38:54Z")
As a poster already pointed out above, there’s basically no non-offensive way to propose or enact population control. If you say, “We need to cut back on carbon emissions,” that’s fairly non controversial - carbon atoms don’t have feelings. But if you say, “Such and such a group of people needs to breed less/be wiped out/be reduced,” that’s far more feather-ruffling and problematic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-population-growth-rarely-discussed-as-a-factor-in-climate-change/825350.md?page=1)