# Why is Prince considered to be a genius? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896 "2016-04-23T13:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/241 "2016-04-26T02:36:49Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > When I think of “genius” and prolific I think of Zappa. > > So Prince is in the same league as Zappa? No. Not even close, you’re right and raise a good point. Prince was way, wayyyyy, **way** better than Zappa. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/242 "2016-04-26T02:40:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [An 8-minute taste of Prince’s musicality and showmanship](https://www.facebook.com/gino.vannelli.94/videos/860538120626650/) Seriously, that is ridiculously awesome. Way more impressive than the “While my guitar gently weeps” solo IMHO. I can only assume the doubters haven’t watched it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/243 "2016-04-26T02:46:06Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > No. Not even close, you’re right and raise a good point. > Prince was way, wayyyyy, **way** better than Zappa. Yeah, Zappa might have a similar level of technical skill—perhaps even higher, who knows? But for the most part, Zappa produced music that has no mass appeal. In a thread in which Prince’s music is called uncatchy, well, hell’s bells, if that’s a benchmark, then Zappa is downright unlistenable. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/244 "2016-04-26T02:50:59Z")
Oh, and– > [@leftfield6](#): > > I was in my 20s in the 1980s, and I was an absolute rock fan. I was not a fan of R&B or Motown. Not really a huge fan of those genres now, but I have an appreciation. But I liked Prince in the 80s because he ROCKED. Yeah, I knew some very rock white dudes–high school kids–in the mid-late '80s, who I think did not appreciate any black artists besides Hendrix. And Prince. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/245 "2016-04-26T03:17:41Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Let me rephrase ‘he’s seems to think I’m a bad guy for asking him to cite what he’s saying’. > Is that closer? I don’t think I’m in the wrong here, asking him for proof that ‘black pop’ or ‘sepia’ was something that was being charted 100 years ago and worse (in my eyes) instead of coming back with cites, he’s coming back with things like ‘do you really not know anything about this?’. You aren’t in the wrong. You are doing fine. We are all aware who is and who isn’t making sense. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/246 "2016-04-26T03:39:58Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > You listened to .2% (not 2% - .2%) of his published music and you are ready to write him off? 4 minutes out of 26 hours. Actually, I have my Prince playlist timed out at closer to 36 hours. 🆒 If I were throwing a Prince playlist out at people based simply on my own personal preferences it might go something like this: Electric Chair Thunder Cream Baltimore Gett Off Joy In Repetition Anna Stesia Anotherloverholeinyohead When Doves Cry Te Amo Corazon Sign ‘O’ The Times Diamonds and Pearls If I Was Your Girlfriend The Cross Thieves In the Temple Adore Colonized Mind DMSR Sometimes It Snows in April Black Sweat Blue Light 7 Condition of the Heart The Ladder And for those who remain unconvinced of his rock cred, one of his live covers of Whole Lotta Love If there’s nothing in that list that you don’t dig on, we can’t be friends. In there is straight-ahead pop, rock, funk, soul, blues, gospel, and a couple ballads for good measure. Subject matter concerning love, sex, God, politics, and philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/247 "2016-04-26T03:55:00Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > \ > In the 1980s i was not hung up on what “category” music fell into. Still not. Don’t know why it’s important to do so, even in this thread. No one was particularly hung up on categories of music in the 80’s - there was country, and there was not-country. And some of the country (like Kenny Rogers) managed to sneak onto the not-country stations. A typical set would be something like Twister Sister, Wham!, Lionel Ritchie, Def Leppard, Prince, Sheena Easton, and Duran Duran. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > George Michael is the “Bible” of 80s music? If you mean George Michael is IN the “Bible” of 80s music, then yes, yes he was. Very much so. You couldn’t turn on MTV without seeing “Careless Whisper.” If you want to hear another example of Prince just doing whatever he damned well pleased in the studio, and having it come out magnificently, take a listen to [Solo from the Come album from 1994.](https://musicmp3.ru/artist_prince__album_come.html#.Vx7i93D2eUc) Just Prince’s vocals and…a harp? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/248 "2016-04-26T10:21:57Z")
Read a report this morning that he’d gone without sleep for days prior to his death and was working on something. Wonder what \*that’s[/] all about. Who inherits all his stuff? All that unreleased material has got to be a multi-generational cash cow. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/249 "2016-04-26T10:22:09Z")
The New Yorker calls him a genius — [http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/02/the-impenetrable-genius-of-prince](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/02/the-impenetrable-genius-of-prince) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/250 "2016-04-26T12:17:47Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > Actually, I have my Prince playlist timed out at closer to 36 hours. 🆒 I was using The Current’s Playlist from the weekend - but they DID have to cut out the “we couldn’t even edit them to get them past the FCC” songs. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/251 "2016-04-26T15:10:13Z")
Jeez - I am about to board a plane. I go away for a couple of days and we’re still engaged in this debate? Sigh. Oh, and I just found this: [QUOTE=Bowie] Like Prince, maybe? Prince, yeah, sure. I mean, he’s probably the most, eclectic artist I’ve seen since me [laughs]. I think he’s a great stealer. [/QUOTE] Coming from one of the best stealers around (Bowie took great ideas from all around him) that is big praise. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/252 "2016-04-26T15:13:24Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I can’t tell if this a plea for help or what, but iTunes has a fair amount of Prince’s catalog. So does Amazon. Since his death, I’ve downloaded many songs. So it’s not that difficult if you really want it. It’s mostly a plea to music streaming services to get on the ball and pay Prince (and other artists or their estates) what it takes get the music. I have Apple Music and Amazon Prime. I’m not a huge fan of music; I tend to dabble what I listen to across all genres. When I find something I like, I listen to it until I’m bored of it and then move on. And I haven’t run out of music I like listening to. I know there’s great music out there that’s not available to me. But it’s not worth my time to find it and pay extra for it when I already have more music to listen to than I have time for. Which brings me to Prince: great artist, but not available. My loss, and maybe his too. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I always offer a mix cd to people if they have any interest in getting to know Prince’s music better - a selection of songs that I consider his best and most accessible, covering all the genres that he has worked in. If you like pop, R&B, and funk, I can’t see any reason why you wouldn’t get to know and love his work like I did. Careful. I’ve heard that zombie Prince (twice the _funky_) will rise from the grave to hunt down copyright violators. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/253 "2016-04-26T17:00:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > A cite for “race music” or “sepia” or “blues” or “jazz” or “rhythm and blues” or “R&B/soul” or “urban” is not a cite for “black pop.” Show me a cite for “black pop” as an actual name _in mainstream use_ by some widely read source as a name for a marketing category or artistic genre of music. > > If it’s a term you have chosen yourself to use then just admit to it, define what you mean by it, and why you think it’s useful to bring up in a discussion about Prince. Those were the names for black popular music over time, or how black pop music was described, produced and marketed. What is the thing I did which you find you have to weed out? Prince is not part of any tradition? Prince didn’t make black music? How is that cool to say? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/254 "2016-04-26T17:05:11Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Black pop music charts go back 76 years in Billboard. Are you saying that before that the industry was integrated? They just decided to start doing that in 1940? Or is it more likely that it was unspoken and there was so much interest in the black pop record market that a huge demand created the chart? > > So you can go on with your point now? This is my post, explaining my statement. So someone talking about black music becomes the “bad guy”? Exactly what is the point of objecting to this statement, and what does that objection have to do with Prince? Any mention that Prince made black music is racist? Really? Do you think Prince was of that opinion? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/255 "2016-04-26T17:07:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Now you actually are just being offensive. If you’re referring to me you should cite and explain. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/256 "2016-04-26T17:33:35Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > This is my post, explaining my statement. > > So someone talking about black music becomes the “bad guy”? Exactly what is the point of objecting to this statement, and what does that objection have to do with Prince? > > Any mention that Prince made black music is racist? Really? Do you think Prince was of that opinion? You dismissed Prince because he played “black pop” & you hadn’t listened to that category since sometime last century. Guess you’re glad Hendrix died so your tastes could remain lily-white. Guess you never heard of Arthur Lee. Yes, music has been marketed to African-Americans, using a variety of labels. (Except for “black pop”–that’s a new one.) People interested in good music have always ignored labels. Even piomeers of the much-maligned “country” music (once called “hillbilly”) were influenced by African-American musicians. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/257 "2016-04-26T17:37:08Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Prince is not part of any tradition? Prince didn’t make black music? How is that cool to say? FWIW, Prince himself made sure he was marketed as a pop artist, not an R&B artist–that was part of his contract. If you listen to the Dirty Mind album – his breakout album – it definitely does not sound like a “black” record. “If You Were Mine” could have come straight from an Elvis Costello album. “Sister” sounds like a Prince spinoff of punk and post-punk. “Dirty Mind” is a four-to-the- floor New Wave dance number. The album does have R&B, soul, funk, and disco-inspired numbers on it, too. Not sure if disco is “black pop” or not. It’s a stylistically diverse and fun album. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/258 "2016-04-26T18:02:13Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > You dismissed Prince because he played “black pop” & you hadn’t listened to that category since sometime last century. Guess you’re glad Hendrix died so your tastes could remain lily-white. Guess you never heard of Arthur Lee. > > Yes, music has been marketed to African-Americans, using a variety of labels. (Except for “black pop”–that’s a new one.) People interested in good music have always ignored labels. Even piomeers of the much-maligned “country” music (once called “hillbilly”) were influenced by African-American musicians. I mentioned black pop as part of a discussion, but subtleties are not exactly the specialty here. I didn’t dismiss anything based on it being black pop, but on being boring to me for reasons already stated. I don’t worship hendrix, and I’ve seen Arthur Lee play live 3 times. I’ve also seen john Lee Hooker, Bo Diddley and Willie Dixon for that matter. I follow the whole history of music and I don’t dismiss black musicians if they are not rock, if that’s what you are implying. Playing the racist card at every opportunity doesn’t become anyone here. There is a big difference between talking about types of pop music and being a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/259 "2016-04-26T18:04:45Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Jeez - I am about to board a plane. I go away for a couple of days and we’re still engaged in this debate? > > Sigh. > > Oh, and I just found this: > > Coming from one of the best stealers around (Bowie took great ideas from all around him) that is big praise. Word, your citations from Joni and Bowie somehow don’t sound that strong. They seem more like just “being polite” to me. I thought we were talking about a transcendent genius here. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/260 "2016-04-26T18:08:53Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > You’re aware that when you start from a position of ignorance, and move on to insults, it pretty much proves the other side’s point for them, right? And you are talking from experience? I guess you are now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=14)