# Why is Prince considered to be a genius? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896 "2016-04-23T13:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/261 "2016-04-26T18:16:33Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Let me rephrase ‘he’s seems to think I’m a bad guy for asking him to cite what he’s saying’. > Is that closer? I don’t think I’m in the wrong here, asking him for proof that ‘black pop’ or ‘sepia’ was something that was being charted 100 years ago and worse (in my eyes) instead of coming back with cites, he’s coming back with things like ‘do you really not know anything about this?’. > **[Ragtime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragtime)** > > Ragtime, also spelled rag-time or rag time, is a musical style that had its peak from the 1890s to 1910s. Its cardinal trait is its syncopated or "ragged" rhythm. Ragtime was popularized during the early 20th century by composers such as Scott Joplin, James Scott and Joseph Lamb. Ragtime pieces (often called "rags") are typically composed for and performed on piano, though the genre has been adapted for a variety of instruments and styles. > Ragtime music originated within African-American commu... > **[Jazz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz)** > > Jazz is a music genre that originated in the African-American communities of New Orleans, Louisiana, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, with its roots in blues, ragtime, European harmony and African rhythmic rituals. Since the 1920s Jazz Age, it has been recognized as a major form of musical expression in traditional and popular music. Jazz is characterized by swing and blue notes, complex chords, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation. > As jazz spread around the worl... The Black influence on the music industry was there from the early history of recording even before there were charts and when it was sheet music being sold. Now can you say why I’m “the bad guy”? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/262 "2016-04-26T18:23:30Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > FWIW, Prince himself made sure he was marketed as a pop artist, not an R&B artist–that was part of his contract. If you listen to the Dirty Mind album – his breakout album – it definitely does not sound like a “black” record. “If You Were Mine” could have come straight from an Elvis Costello album. “Sister” sounds like a Prince spinoff of punk and post-punk. “Dirty Mind” is a four-to-the- floor New Wave dance number. The album does have R&B, soul, funk, and disco-inspired numbers on it, too. Not sure if disco is “black pop” or not. It’s a stylistically diverse and fun album. Sure, he was eclectic and a synthesizer and probably was historic in that way. I think if you look back a page I am saying he was pop, but I don’t think he was “rock” and I think his songs are just middling. But if you can’t hear the black influences in his records I imagine Prince himself would be confused and mortified. You really think Miles Davis didn’t hear black music coming out of Prince? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/263 "2016-04-26T19:12:55Z")
I think you hear black music coming out of Adele. Rock finds its origins in black music. Pop is a subgenre of rock. So is hip-hop and rockabilly and heavy metal and electronica and punk and new wave and alternative and… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/264 "2016-04-26T19:23:12Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Sure, he was eclectic and a synthesizer and probably was historic in that way. I think if you look back a page I am saying he was pop, but I don’t think he was “rock” and I think his songs are just middling. But if you can’t hear the black influences in his records I imagine Prince himself would be confused and mortified. You really think Miles Davis didn’t hear black music coming out of Prince? I can hear black influences coming out of Sarah McLachlan, who is so white she makes Duran Duran look like NWA. Seriously, “Black influence” describes basically all genres of popular music. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/265 "2016-04-26T19:31:40Z")
It looks like Prince was worth over $400 million dollars and he left no will. This is going to get ugly and public. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/266 "2016-04-26T19:34:47Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I think you hear black music coming out of Adele. Rock finds its origins in black music. Pop is a subgenre of rock. So is hip-hop and rockabilly and heavy metal and electronica and punk and new wave and alternative and… Eh, probably not hip hop, but if you make rock and Jazz both sub-genres of the blues I can probably get behind wrapping hip hop in that cloak. That said, yeah, when modern western popular music is all derived from the blues, jazz, or hip hop you are going to be hard pressed to find something that isn’t black influenced. You get some American folk music derivatives that you can maybe say aren’t influenced by the blues, but man it would be tough to say they don’t have common roots. Not a lot of baroque music in popular culture these days, not Gregorian an chants, symphonic works or European folk tunes. They exist (the pogues, sigur ros, etc) but they are rare. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/267 "2016-04-26T19:39:36Z")
I don’t listen to Duran Duran, but then I haven’t listened to black pop in years. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/268 "2016-04-26T19:42:47Z")
I mean what the hell is “genius?” In intelligence it’s typically what percentage of people? 1/100? 1/500? Whatever percentage it is I’m sure Prince was in that percentile in the field of music. Now whether or not you like Prince is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/269 "2016-04-26T20:03:30Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I feel that way about Pink Floyd. I cannot figure out why anyone would want to listen to that - its an instant migraine for me. I don’t even know much of their catalog because there seriously is something headache inducing for me about their music. > > So I’ll never give Pink Floyd a chance. I’ll believe it if someone tells me they are objectively great - I don’t know enough to form my own opinion and never will. Interestingly enough, [here’s Pink Floyd’s tribute](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/david-gilmour-prince-comfortably-numb-purple-rain_us_571eb607e4b0f309baee5c98?) to Prince from Sunday’s concert, at about 4:20-ish. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/270 "2016-04-26T20:05:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I mean what the hell is “genius?” In intelligence it’s typically what percentage of people? 1/100? 1/500? Whatever percentage it is I’m sure Prince was in that percentile in the field of music. Now whether or not you like Prince is irrelevant. Exactly. The guy was quite proficient or extremely gifted at a wide variety of instruments, singing, and production in a wide variety of musical styles. It’s like saying saying “meh, Einstein wasn’t a genius, imho. I’m more of a chemistry guy” ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/271 "2016-04-26T20:06:33Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I was using The Current’s Playlist from the weekend - but they DID have to cut out the “we couldn’t even edit them to get them past the FCC” songs. Fair point. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/272 "2016-04-26T20:13:09Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What isn’t catchy about “Raspberry Beret”? Forget about the hook; the first few measures are magnetizing just because of the funky rock rhythm. And then, what, the violin out of nowhere? The song is like a sushi roll of pop goodness. > > What isn’t catchy about “Kiss”? \* I just want your extra time and your (dindiddyiddydiddydiddyding) kiss. \* Even if you hate this song, the hook is compelling, clear, and hard to forget. > > What isn’t catchy about “Controversy”? _Am I black and white; am I straight or gay… Controversy!_ Can you honestly listen to this song and walk away thinking, “gee I wonder what the name of that song is?” Or even “gee, what was the prevailing melody in that song?” I’m pretty certain I could hum two measures of this (in the wrong key, no less) and my 90 year-old grandmother would be able to name this tune. If that’s not catchy, nothing is catchy. > > I don’t even think the question of catchiness boils down to taste. People in the industry know what makes a catchy song catchy even if personally they don’t like the song; this insight is what factors into what singles get selected for airplay. > > Prince’s strength wasn’t in making catchy tunes anyway. Otherwise anyone who writes commercial jingles would be granted genius status. His strength was in creating fresh, evocative, multi-dimensional music that also happened to be catchy. The songs you’ve held up as examples of catchy seem shallow compared to the storytelling of “Raspberry Beret”, which is much more than a singer wailing a hook into a mic over and over again. I like Delirious for catchiness from Prince. That and Horny Toad. Oh, and You Got the Look. Seven is alright. The Beautiful Ones is quite good. Nothing wrong with Bob George. In Octopus’s pantheon of all time greats in the music world, while not being my favorite singer, I’d rank Prince as the overall most talented of the folks I listen to regularly. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/273 "2016-04-26T20:16:46Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > George Michael is the “Bible” of 80s music? Not the Bible, but one of the books. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/274 "2016-04-26T20:26:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I don’t listen to Duran Duran, but then I haven’t listened to black pop in years. Not even Rio? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/275 "2016-04-26T20:29:11Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It looks like Prince was worth over $400 million dollars and he left no will. This is going to get ugly and public. FWIW, I just read that he left no will and that he was likely worth much, much less. He has had some unpaid property tax bills (although the property taxes on Paisley Park are paid up), had an IRS tax lien in 2013 (unknown resolution) and failed to pay up on a $4.4 million dollar lawsuit he lost regarding his failure to promote a perfume line (the plaintiff’s lawyers dug around and found about $3 million in various Minnesota bank accounts and froze them to satisfy the debt). This is not to say Prince was a (sorry) pauper. He is said to have owned around $26 million in property, including houses for family members and so forth. Plus it’s estimated that his posthumous earnings will dwarf those of previous deceased celebrities like Elvis Presley ($55 million last year) and even Michael Jackson ($1 billion so far). All in all, whosoever is in line to receive inheritances from Prince’s estate will do very well indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/276 "2016-04-26T20:36:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Interestingly enough, [here’s Pink Floyd’s tribute](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/david-gilmour-prince-comfortably-numb-purple-rain_us_571eb607e4b0f309baee5c98?) to Prince from Sunday’s concert, at about 4:20-ish. Someone posted that on my facebook feed earlier - yep, Comfortably Numb had me going headachy and sick feeling. I don’t know if its the frequency or the rhythm or what, but I can tell its Floyd from a consistent physical reaction. And I’ve had it since junior high when The Wall was big. But I’m never going to say it isn’t objectively good music. People I respect love it. It just pretty obviously isn’t my cup of tea. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/277 "2016-04-26T20:39:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I like Delirious for catchiness from Prince. That and Horny Toad. Oh, and You Got the Look. Seven is alright. The Beautiful Ones is quite good. Nothing wrong with Bob George. > > In Octopus’s pantheon of all time greats in the music world, while not being my favorite singer, I’d rank Prince as the overall most talented of the folks I listen to regularly. Shit, now Delirious is running through my brain. Its one of those earworms. I’ll have to start singing Its a Small World to myself now to get rid of it. Cause that’s a GREAT piece of music\> ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/278 "2016-04-26T20:40:16Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Yeah, I really don’t get people who say “His music does nothing for me” and then transition that into “Overrated” or that someone is not incredibly talented. > > I know it’s an overused meme, but as the Dude would say Well I dont know. I recognize Prince was a gifted musician but yet, I own none of his music nor would I buy any. Why? The topics of his songs like “Darling Nicky” dont do much for me however I do plan on buying “When the Doves Cry”. Same as I recognize ACDC as being good yet I have no desire to buy their stuff. I can recognize good musicianship yet not actually want to buy it. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/279 "2016-04-26T20:42:08Z")
As someone Tweeted, Prince could steal your girl, then steal her clothes, then steal somebody else’s girl in your girl’s clothes. 🙂 As this [great article points out](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/04/22/prince_ruled_the_charts_in_the_80s_even_when_his_name_wasn_t_on_the_songs.html), when Prince initially signed to Warner, he insisted on being signed to their pop division instead of their R&B division. So even though his first few records were still mostly marketed to R&B radio, he was already working at blurring genre lines and becoming a full-fledged pop star. He also insisted on what they called the “Stevie Wonder contract”–he wanted total creative control, even as an unsigned 18 year old. And they were smart enough to give it to him. So in a music industry full of manufactured acts and personas, Prince became a dominant force by doing exactly whatever the hell he wanted to do. That’s genius. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/280 "2016-04-26T20:44:27Z")
By the way, for anyone wanting to dig into the Prince catalog–just about all of it is on Tidal, and there’s a 30-day free trial. (Plus you get to listen to the new Beyonce, which is pretty great.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=15)