# Why is Prince considered to be a genius? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896 "2016-04-23T13:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/41 "2016-04-23T23:25:43Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I [asked the same question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=584026) over 5 years ago, and found the responses (like the ones in this thread) unsatisfactory. I understand he was a very skilled performer, but I don’t understand why he was such a huge pop star, given that such success usually involves having really catchy songs. And I still don’t find any Prince songs very catchy. > > I suspect Prince was overrated by the music industry because he was flamboyant, and he was a good black guitarist (ever since Jimi Hendrix, rock critics have thought there “should” be more great black guitarists.) Off the top of my head, and without links but… Let’s take a look at just the hits. Kiss When the Doves Cry Let’s go Crazy 1999 Rasberry Beret Little Red Corvett Purple Rain These are just his monster hits. Not his minor hits, not his pretty big hits. Not his songs made famous by other people. That’s seven songs that ANY living misician would give over the rest of their career to have written. Heck, most would be happy to have written just one. If he had written nothing but those songs he would be a superstar. And the thing is, ask anyone who knows his catalog well… This isn’t close to his best work. Look at the “best prince songs thread”. These aren’t the songs being name checked. That’s just the songwriting. He played all the instruments and produced all those songs too. Again. Any individual producer would give their career to claim credit for one of those. WordMan already covered his use of electronic instrumentation and how it changed music in ways you still here in modern pop as well as his willingness to edit radically songs like When the Doves Cry. As a singer he was unbelievable. Go put on Kiss and try to sing along. Go ahead. Match pitch with him andd do it at speed. Particularly the third repeat of the chorus. He was one of the 50 greatest rock guitarists of all time. That’s not up for debate. An amazing balance of technical proficiency and emotional literacy. But he was equally adept and a number of instruments. Which is so rare that it’s actually shocking. So songwriter, producer, musician and singer. You may not like his music but he wasn’t appreciated because of his flamboyance or because he was a minority If that was all it took Pat Smear would be a household name. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/42 "2016-04-23T23:31:21Z")
Are you people trolling us? He wrote multiple monster hits. (which puts him on a short list) He performed those same hits. (which removes 90% of aforementioned list) He played most instruments on the recordings of those hits. (which removes 90% of aforementioned list) He produced those same hits. (now the list doesn’t meet Opal’s criteria) He found, produced many other great performers. And somehow that doesn’t impress you? Remind me not to invite you for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/43 "2016-04-23T23:35:44Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Are you people trolling us? > > He wrote multiple monster hits. (which puts him on a short list) > He performed those same hits. (which removes 90% of aforementioned list) > He played most instruments on the recordings of those hits. (which removes 90% of aforementioned list) > He produced those same hits. (now the list doesn’t meet Opal’s criteria) > > He found, produced many other great performers. > > And somehow that doesn’t impress you? > > Remind me not to invite you for dinner. Please the cat could ball. _Would anyone like any grapes? Bitches…_ ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/44 "2016-04-23T23:41:18Z")
[An 8-minute taste of Prince’s musicality and showmanship](https://www.facebook.com/gino.vannelli.94/videos/860538120626650/) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/45 "2016-04-23T23:46:05Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > More than that, he was a master performer. He had so much charisma and personality that he made David Bowie (who prior to his death was my imaginary baby daddy) look like a wallflower. He transcended race, gender, and sexuality. He helped launched the careers of so many others–many of them women. He was a genius songwriter. He left a huge impression on the rock, pop, and R&B worlds. No one crossed-over in quite the way that Prince did. I’m not a great concert goer, but of the very few concerts I’ve seen two were Bowie and Prince. Now, Prince in Minneapolis has a HUGE advantage. And I did see it in the Star Tribune suite - but he had everyone eating out of his hand. Bowie was…meh (It was the Glass Spider tour, not his best tour - but then the Prince concert I went to was the Musicology tour) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/46 "2016-04-23T23:48:39Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I I understand he was a very skilled performer, but I don’t understand why he was such a huge pop star, given that such success usually involves having really catchy songs. And I still don’t find any Prince songs very catchy. You can’t be serious. This is like saying “Durr, I don’t get why pizza is so popular. Popular food taste yummy. And I don’t find pizza yummy.” Millions of people around the world beg to differ. So what else is there to say? You think his fans are all suffering from mass delusion? That he’s been selling out stadiums for 30 some-odd years just because he was a flamboyant black guy who could play the guitar a bit? That his albums have never stopped selling because people like to collect music that actually sucks? Really? I can understand not having a taste for his music and style–free country and all–but your opinion is about the silliest thing ever posted in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/47 "2016-04-23T23:50:51Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Are you people trolling us? > > He wrote multiple monster hits. (which puts him on a short list) > He performed those same hits. (which removes 90% of aforementioned list) > He played most instruments on the recordings of those hits. (which removes 90% of aforementioned list) > He produced those same hits. (now the list doesn’t meet Opal’s criteria) > > He found, produced many other great performers. > > And somehow that doesn’t impress you? > > Remind me not to invite you for dinner. Apparently, Dunning Kruger applies to musical taste as well. 😃 McCartney, as part of the Beatles, yeah, I’d still give the Beatle’s the GOAT over Prince. They took what Little Richard, Elvis, and Chuck Berry pioneered and perfected it.Not McCartney alone, though. Only as part of the super group. Stevie Wonder’s another candidate, although, he lacks the rock idol - sex good aspect that Prince exemplified. Stevie also didn’t writer anywhere near as many hit songs for other people. Prince has the undisputed lead out of all the pop stars listed: > [@](#): > > Chuck Berry, Little Richard, McCartney, Dylan, Brian Wilson, Stevie Wonder, Neil Young Joni Mitchell, Smokey Robinson Ray Davies, Townshend, Tom Waits, are all still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/48 "2016-04-23T23:53:15Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He’s a better vocalist, IMO, than a guitar player. What impresses me about Prince is how he put it all together. He wasn’t just an instrument player; he was a producer and conductor, and a live entertainer. That takes genius. Few people are trying to argue that he’s the best who ever lived, just that he’s a genius and an extremely influential musician who influenced and inspired many of his contemporaries and younger entertainers who would perform in the 1990s and beyond. He’s #30 on Rolling Stones list of vocalists. He also had moves - so you combine the instruments, the songwriting, the vocals - and then add a guy who could dance - I’m not sure who else has the complete performance package at that level. (His acting skills weren’t great :). Note that his Oscar was NOT for acting) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/49 "2016-04-23T23:56:23Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Maybe because he didn’t just have “catchy” songs? He had a ton of catchy songs, and he had even more songs that were lyrically and musically amazing. > > More than that, he was a master performer. He had so much charisma and personality that he made David Bowie (who prior to his death was my imaginary baby daddy) look like a wallflower. He transcended race, gender, and sexuality. He helped launched the careers of so many others–many of them women. He was a genius songwriter. He left a huge impression on the rock, pop, and R&B worlds. No one crossed-over in quite the way that Prince did. > > Reducing Prince to a “black guitarist” is just about the most ignorant, offensive thing a person could do in this thread, bro. I don’t find it offensive. I see it as an honest expression of a paranoid world view. If one encounters something in the world one can’t understand or accept, build up a conspiracy theory to explain it, and sleep better at night. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/50 "2016-04-23T23:58:35Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > In terms of guitar, Prince was a huge Santana fan, but Prince was a much better guitarist technically. Santana is a very soulful guitarist, but rarely plays anything that a competent player with a couple of years under his belt couldn’t play. Yeah, in addition to your earlier post, this. There’s lots of guitarists who I think are great because they played something inventive that other guitarists might not think to play. He was a rare guitarist who not only did that, but they also made it tasteful and catchy. On top of that, he had the skill to play it at a speed that most of us can only hit on a really good day. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/51 "2016-04-24T00:21:24Z")
I just checked out Wordman’s link. GOAT. No question. And we haven’t even hear anything from the vault. Some of his backshelf stuff is going to be amazing. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/52 "2016-04-24T00:34:07Z")
Ah damn, crying again. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/53 "2016-04-24T00:34:51Z")
I was not a Prince fan. Before his death, I’d have been hard-pressed to name one of his songs. But I’ve been listening to retrospectives on the radio, and I’ve been impressed by his range and variety. And the stuff I’ve heard has all been good, in different ways. He’s still not my favorite or anything, but I’m impressed with his talent. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/54 "2016-04-24T00:50:21Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Off the top of my head, and without links but… Let’s take a look at just the hits. > > Kiss > When the Doves Cry > Let’s go Crazy > 1999 > Rasberry Beret > Little Red Corvett > Purple Rain > > These are just his monster hits. Not his minor hits, not his pretty big hits. Not his songs made famous by other people. That’s seven songs that ANY living misician would give over the rest of their career to have written. Heck, most would be happy to have written just one. If he had written nothing but those songs he would be a superstar. > > And the thing is, ask anyone who knows his catalog well… This isn’t close to his best work. Look at the “best prince songs thread”. These aren’t the songs being name checked. > > That’s just the songwriting. He played all the instruments and produced all those songs too. Again. Any individual producer would give their career to claim credit for one of those. WordMan already covered his use of electronic instrumentation and how it changed music in ways you still here in modern pop as well as his willingness to edit radically songs like When the Doves Cry. > > As a singer he was unbelievable. Go put on Kiss and try to sing along. Go ahead. Match pitch with him andd do it at speed. Particularly the third repeat of the chorus. > > He was one of the 50 greatest rock guitarists of all time. That’s not up for debate. An amazing balance of technical proficiency and emotional literacy. But he was equally adept and a number of instruments. Which is so rare that it’s actually shocking. > > So songwriter, producer, musician and singer. You may not like his music but he wasn’t appreciated because of his flamboyance or because he was a minority If that was all it took Pat Smear would be a household name. I’m watching and listening to the Controversy performance on youtube. (I saw the Boston show 35 days later 3/2/82). I have to say. Don’t hate me. but without Todd Rundgren you might not know Prince. Todds songs are We Gotta get you a woman Hello it’s me i saw the light Can we still be friends Love of the Common Man Zen Archer The Verb to love For the want of a nail Bang the drum all day Love is the answer It wouldn’t have made any difference Black Maria Play this game and on and on Guitarist, writer, producer, prog band leader, mentor, played all the instruments and sang great, had his own studio. Sound familiar? The difference is he came first and I can \*\*remember \*\*his songs, even when they weren’t hits. They aren’t vamps. (Not that all Ps songs are, but c’mon…you know when you’re sitting through one) (And Todd is **not** in the Hall of Fame BTW) I am so familiar with Princes hits, and I just can’t say they draw me back as songs. If they weren’t hits, and or/prince I’m not sure that musos would give their eye teeth for them at all. The songs have to stand up with: Waterloo Sunset Expecting to Fly Ohh Baby Baby Cause we’ve ended as lovers Tom Trauberts blues Court and Spark Eleanor Rigby Won’t get fooled again Do they? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/55 "2016-04-24T01:00:34Z")
Are you kidding?! Yes, they more than hold up; thanks though. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/56 "2016-04-24T01:04:10Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Are you kidding?! > > Yes, they more than hold up; thanks though. I can’t hear Prince holding up to Al Green or the Stylistics or many other more specific predecessors either. Not yet anyway. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/57 "2016-04-24T01:07:29Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I can’t hear Prince holding up to Al Green or the Stylistics or many other more specific predecessors either. Not yet anyway. Dude - okay. So we have established that this is about your opinion. So great to hear you _may_ choose to give Prince another chance! Wow! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/58 "2016-04-24T01:22:53Z")
By the way - Todd Rundgren is a truly brilliant musician. Not the funkiest of guys and not a persona that anyone but a Todd-head is even aware of, but much respect for wonderful music. Todd Rundgren. Sexy. Todd Rundgren. Sexy. Hmm. Nope. Nothing there. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/59 "2016-04-24T01:23:45Z")
See, **drad dog** and others, the thing about music is that YOUR opinion about who/what is great music will be incredibly biased by what YOUR preferences are in what you listen to. I don’t give two shakes of a woodchuck’s tail about Todd Rundgren. But I know he is widely considered a musical pioneer, an incredible songwriter, and an icon. If people who know and appreciate his music consider him a genius on the level of some of the names thrown around in this thread, that’s great . But just because Prince’s music “doesn’t draw you back as songs” really just means that he doesn’t fit with your musical tastes. If he was alive and posting in this thread, I’m sure he would say something like “That’s cool man, find music you love and love that instead.” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/60 "2016-04-24T01:24:43Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The difference is he came first and I can \*\*remember \*\*his songs, even when they weren’t hits. They aren’t vamps. (Not that all Ps songs are, but c’mon…you know when you’re sitting through one) (And Todd is **not** in the Hall of Fame BTW) How old are you? This matters. If you are Gen Xer or a late Baby Boomer, it is more likely that Prince’s music will have power over you than if you belong to another generation. That might be why his music doesn’t stick with you as much. Has nothing to do with technical skill or genius or whatever and all to do with who provided the soundtrack for your most defining experiences in life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=4)