# Why is Prince considered to be a genius? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896 "2016-04-23T13:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/61 "2016-04-24T01:32:16Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > How old are you? This matters. If you are Gen Xer or a late Baby Boomer, it is more likely that Prince’s music will have power over you than if you belong to another generation. That might be why his music doesn’t stick with you as much. Has nothing to do with technical skill or genius or whatever and all to do with who provided the soundtrack for your most defining experiences in life. A fair point for a non-musician - non-musician’s tend to care most about their high school music. Musicians have the same grounding, but invest very deeply on other genres as they dig in and expand their playing. I have yet to meet a musician of any decent ability that isn’t in awe of Prince. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/62 "2016-04-24T01:38:24Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I am so familiar with Princes hits, and I just can’t say they draw me back as songs. If they weren’t hits, and or/prince I’m not sure that musos would give their eye teeth for them at all. > > The songs have to stand up with: > Waterloo Sunset > Expecting to Fly > Ohh Baby Baby > Cause we’ve ended as lovers > Tom Trauberts blues > Court and Spark > Eleanor Rigby > Won’t get fooled again > > Do they? Yes? You are mixing subjective opinion with objective fact. We have done this in other threads. It’s your choice to use subjective criteria as your benchmark, I won’t begrudge you that. Other people in this thread are likely doing the same. It won’t get us anywhere though. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/63 "2016-04-24T01:41:03Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > By the way - Todd Rundgren is a truly brilliant musician. Not the funkiest of guys and not a persona that anyone but a Todd-head is even aware of, but much respect for wonderful music. > > Todd Rundgren. Sexy. Todd Rundgren. Sexy. Hmm. > > Nope. Nothing there. Tell that to all the willowy girls I went to college with. I imagine he’s funk-E-Nuf I mentioned it because I could hear the influence it in the 82 controversy show on line. There is a lot of Utopia in Prince that I can hear. I heard that one of Princes favorite records was A Wizard A True Star. I wouldn’t have put you through that if I hadn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/64 "2016-04-24T01:45:38Z")
The OP’s question can be asked of almost all living or deceased artist since their greatness is based on peer appreciation, popularity or other subjective measures. Talent isn’t objectively measurable. And it’s rare if an artist actually invents something new. But Prince is one of the last people I would expect this question asked of. I was never a huge fan, but I felt he was almost universally admired. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/65 "2016-04-24T01:47:36Z")
Because yes, that’s what the world is doing right now: not mourning the loss of a musical genius, but wondering why your boy Todd isn’t more lauded. Todd Rundgren is wonderful. I just listened to his interview on WTF with Marc Maron and really enjoyed it. But he’s no Prince. Not even close. When Todd passes - hopefully a long time from now - a few die-hard fans and musicians with any respect for great musicians of the past will bow their heads. That’s not what is happening here. Think about that. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/66 "2016-04-24T01:51:33Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Yes? You are mixing subjective opinion with objective fact. We have done this in other threads. It’s your choice to use subjective criteria as your benchmark, I won’t begrudge you that. Other people in this thread are likely doing the same. It won’t get us anywhere though. I get that. I was just making sure that you felt that way, and it wasn’t a knee-jerk thing. But if you could answer that instantaneously I would be amazed if you had registered the tunes in your mind. I’m a late baby boomer. I understand he was an obsessive workaholic multi- instumentalist. I just can’t hear the uniqueness. There was something about him that seems self congratulatory and onanistic, that I can’t get excited about when I can’t hear the tune. But I haven’t really got into black pop music since the Ojays or the Spinners. Todd is doing great. No worries from me. His sound is around and influential so he gets mentioned in relation to others. I’m thinking about it but I don’t think I’m thinking what you think I’m thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/67 "2016-04-24T01:53:28Z")
Prince’s songs never did much for me - I admired the catchiness of Purple Rain and enjoyed the videos, but it wasn’t my bag. However, I’m also not vain enough to think that my lack of appreciation was about anything other than me…instead, I saw how many people around me found it irresistible to dance to, to play repeatedly, and um…to dance to some more. If you weren’t in the middle of it, it may be impossible to understand how fucking incredible his impact was. That alone is genius. W/respect to the guitar, if what you read upthread hasn’t convinced you that his playing alone made him a genius, you’re probably a lost cause. Still, in case you aren’t, here’s a nice Billy Gibbons appreciation: > **[‘Defying description’: ZZ Top’s Billy Gibbons on Prince the ‘sensational’...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/04/22/defying-description-zz-tops-billy-gibbons-on-prince-the-sensational-guitarist/)** > > Remembering the night the two guitar greats spent hours talking technique. The link to his version of Honky Tonk Woman is stellar - he blends genres seamlessly, and his confidence and command are just amazing. So yeah. There’s that. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/68 "2016-04-24T01:57:46Z")
**drad dog** : “I haven’t been into black pop music since the O’Jays and the Spinners.” So, you’ve missed, what?, _40 years_ of “black pop music” but feel just great about offering a POV and not trying to learn about what you missed. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/69 "2016-04-24T02:00:18Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Prince’s songs never did much for me - I admired the catchiness of Purple Rain and enjoyed the videos, but it wasn’t my bag. However, I’m also not vain enough to think that my lack of appreciation was about anything other than me…instead, I saw how many people around me found it irresistible to dance to, to play repeatedly, and um…to dance to some more. If you weren’t in the middle of it, it may be impossible to understand how fucking incredible his impact was. That alone is genius. > > W/respect to the guitar, if what you read upthread hasn’t convinced you that his playing alone made him a genius, you’re probably a lost cause. Still, in case you aren’t, here’s a nice Billy Gibbons appreciation: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/04/22/defying-description-zz-tops-billy-gibbons-on-prince-the-sensational-guitarist/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/04/22/defying-description-zz-tops-billy-gibbons-on-prince-the-sensational-guitarist/) > > The link to his version of Honky Tonk Woman is stellar - he blends genres seamlessly, and his confidence and command are just amazing. > > So yeah. There’s that. Thanks, and damn. What we’ve lost, what I’ve missed. That is some awesome geetar twangin right there! ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/70 "2016-04-24T02:04:13Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > By the way - Todd Rundgren is a truly brilliant musician. Not the funkiest of guys and not a persona that anyone but a Todd-head is even aware of, but much respect for wonderful music. > > Todd Rundgren. Sexy. Todd Rundgren. Sexy. Hmm. > > Nope. Nothing there. In now way do I want to a see a “let’s slag Todd Rundgren” diversion. He’s awesome. Writer, performer, producer. Amazing. But not a rock idol-sex god. Mick, yeah. James Brown, yeah. Elvis, yeah. Sinatra, yeah. Prince? FUCK YEAH! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/71 "2016-04-24T02:05:11Z")
That linked interview with Billy Gibbons - a deeply respected guitar player himself, no? - is so wonderful. The deep reverence for Prince’s playing and dedication to craft is a joy to read. Thanks **Maserschmidt**! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/72 "2016-04-24T02:07:58Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > A fair point for a non-musician - non-musician’s tend to care most about their high school music. Musicians have the same grounding, but invest very deeply on other genres as they dig in and expand their playing. > > I have yet to meet a musician of any decent ability that isn’t in awe of Prince. For me, I enjoyed Prince in high school, but it wasn’t until college that I really discovered his pre 1984 music. His left an indelible mark on most of my formative early adult memories because I was listening to him all the time. He was so prolific there was always enough of his stuff to listen to without getting sick of it. Like, we’re not talking about one or two albums, but dozens to choose from. So of course this is going to have an effect on a person. When you latch on to an artist like that, their music becomes a sustaining presence in your life, much like food and water. And this kind of “latching on” can only happen when you are young and still developing your musical tastes. When I started vet school in '99 and started using Napster, the first song I downloaded was Erotic City. I remember how thrilling that was because I didn’t have that song among my dusty collection of tapes (I was a late adopter of CDs) and now I could listen to it as much as I wanted. Something so simple that gave me so much joy. It’s not the song so much that I think of now, but rather the bright-eyed excitement that the song gave me, at that time in my life. And yet that song was rather old in 1999. His fans are numerous because his music appealed to people emotionally. This is why threads like this are difficult because his status as a genius doesn’t just boil down to mechanics and proficiency, so objective metrics will not fully answer the question as to why he was so beloved. Quite simply, he knew how to produce music that made people _feel_. That he did that through masterful technique is almost besides the point. ---
**Author:** ![Molotok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Molotok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molotok)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/73 "2016-04-24T02:09:16Z")
He made the guitar cry, scream, wail. He didn’t just pinch harmonics to ‘‘add color’’, he did it in a visceral way. That’s not to say he’s the only one who did this (he wasn’t), but it helped him stand out from some dull popular music. He sang in a confident falsetto before Jeff Buckley, Matt Bellamy, Thom Yorke et al. I know Roy Orbison was a great singer too, but you can’t see Prince’s mark on modern pop singing? He wrote movie soundtracks [Batdance by Prince - Songfacts](http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2131) Writing great music is hard enough in the easiest times. His lyrics were ‘‘low brow’’ (for want of a better term) enough that people could connect them to the music and relate in a very personal way. Not something you can learn from a book. His music was a bit out of my range generally, but the dude really worked hard at his craft and I think it’s clear to many that he was not just a regular music celebrity. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/74 "2016-04-24T02:20:37Z")
At times like this, the phrase “Haters gonna hate” is very conducive to maintaining mental health. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/75 "2016-04-24T02:21:13Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Tell that to all the willowy girls I went to college with. Okay, but Prince embodied sexy so well that even macho men got chills looking at him. Look, many things can be debated, but Prince being the sexiest man that ever lived is not one of them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/76 "2016-04-24T02:32:58Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Okay, but Prince embodied sexy so well that even macho men got chills looking at him. > > Look, many things can be debated, but Prince being the sexiest man that ever lived is not one of them. 🙂 Not my taste, but you’d have to be blind to think that if you could bottle it, you wouldn’t have a zillion takers. Liquid sex appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/77 "2016-04-24T02:55:04Z")
When I think of “genius” and prolific I think of Zappa. So Prince is in the same league as Zappa? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/78 "2016-04-24T03:04:07Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **drad dog** : “I haven’t been into black pop music since the O’Jays and the Spinners.” > > So, you’ve missed, what?, _40 years_ of “black pop music” but feel just great about offering a POV and not trying to learn about what you missed. > > :smack: A lot of the sounds I’m familiar with and don’t care for. I don’t live in a cave. I haven’t been buying those records because it lost the aesthetic thread for me. I’m a rock fan rather than a pop fan like that I guess. Like a lot of people I would imagine. I am only a little younger than Prince though. I saw him in 82, and I have to live with this like everyone else. Guess I might have an opinion. If he’s a genius then that’s OK. But the thread is a discussion presupposing that he might not be too, or at least inviting discussion as to why?. So I really want to find out what’s there, believe it or not, very sincerely. (I’m going to be listening a lot now for a bit anyway) I’m going to say, as a rock fan mind you, that if you can say without a seconds hesitation that Princes stuff is as good as the stuff I mentioned, we are not on the same planet music wise. I thought that a moments reflection might be in the offing when you compare him to the greatest rock composers greatest work. It’s not a sign of weakness. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/79 "2016-04-24T03:04:12Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > When I think of “genius” and prolific I think of Zappa. > > So Prince is in the same league as Zappa? With all due respect - we don’t need a Zappa- bashing session; he is also wonderful - but no, Zappa is not close to the same league as Prince. FZ was a great composer, arranger, producer and player. Prince was all that and much more. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/80 "2016-04-24T03:05:57Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > At times like this, the phrase “Haters gonna hate” is very conducive to maintaining mental health. I know but Larry, this is not the amen corner thread, it’s the ‘Is he a genius"’ thread. There is a little difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=5)