# Why is Prince considered to be a genius? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896 "2016-04-23T13:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/141 "2016-04-25T02:31:45Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > It’s like criticizing “Casablanca” because every other line in the movie has been quoted non-stop since 1941 and they all seem so familiar. “What’s up with that Lord of the Rings guy, Tolkien? Everything in his books has SO been done before!” ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/142 "2016-04-25T02:36:13Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Sirius Xm has made channel 50 a Prince tribute channel for the time being. If you have satellite radio access you can listen to some stuff that doesn’t get as much airplay. Aha!, I was surprised that I couldn’t find a single Prince song on any XM station since his death. They must have funneled them all to 50. I was very happy that in my last 20 minute drive I knew TWO songs. When Doves Cry was just ending when I got in and Diamonds and Pearls was just starting when I got out. Everything else was new to me (and songs that I don’t think were ever on the radio or at least not mainstream). Also, they’re playing ‘other’ stuff as well. At some point in the mix they had Nasty Girl by Vanity 6 (yes, I read up on them). Hopefully this means I’ll get to ride this station out for a while instead of getting sick of Let’s Go Crazy after 2 Days and changing it. PS, I take some of that back, I also heard 1999. Never listened to the lyrics. Not really a happy song. He’s partying because everyone is going to get killed soon in some great apocalyptic war. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/143 "2016-04-25T02:37:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > … With Prince, dance was merely a garnish, albeit an yummy one. > > Few cats can play an instrument, sing, and pop a split all at the same time (wearing high heels!), so while I wouldn’t call Prince a genius dancer, I wouldn’t call him above-average either. And just for you, I’m willing to grant that he is 3 sigma above the mean in terms of sexiness as well 😛 ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/144 "2016-04-25T02:38:51Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > By implying that he might only be that, you’re showing that you’re pretty ignorant of his oeuvre. Even if you aren’t ignorant of his other work, you’ve implied that you’re not really qualified to judge his work in that area, since you aren’t familiar with the form. I have heard plenty of black pop. I’m just not a consumer of it after the soul era. If I was completely ignorant of it how would I even have any preference for or against? I judge art and/or genius independently of genre though. So you’re right: I think he is black pop (The sound that he made beyond just being black and popular) and he is greatly able and inspired to make songs in a prodigious way, but I don’t think he transcends black pop (The Jacksons, Kool and the gang, george clinton, the delfonics etc). I’ve heard a few hours of Prince in the last 48 and no doubt I’m going to hear a lot more. I’m trying to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/145 "2016-04-25T02:51:14Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Whatever I do I am going to be hearing a lot of Prince now for a while. > His sound fits in a playlist with Kool and the Gang, Any of the Jacksons, Debarge, Pointer sisters, george clinton, etc. It can’t be an insult to be a black pop musician. Smokey, marvin and stevie are black pop musicians. You must be into him a lot if you find that a silly category for him. You know he wrote Manic Monday for The Bangles, Nothing Compares 2 U for Sinead O’Connor, When You Were Mine - the Cyndi Lauper hit, and Stevie Nick’s Stand Back? Cause you know, when I think “Black pop music” The Bangles are what springs to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/146 "2016-04-25T02:56:04Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And just for you, I’m willing to grant that he is 3 sigma above the mean in terms of sexiness as well 😛 That sly, shy smile of his - 3 sigma above the mean in sexiness, indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/147 "2016-04-25T03:02:14Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > \ > I judge art and/or genius independently of genre though. So you’re right: I think he is black pop (The sound that he made beyond just being black and popular) and he is greatly able and inspired to make songs in a prodigious way, but I don’t think he transcends black pop (The Jacksons, Kool and the gang, george clinton, the delfonics etc). I’ve heard a few hours of Prince in the last 48 and no doubt I’m going to hear a lot more. I’m trying to get it. I don’t know how to respond to this; what would an artist have to do, in your opinion, to transcend a genre? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/148 "2016-04-25T03:13:15Z")
“A black popular musician” can be a descriptive phrase for a particular person. But I don’t think I know what this “black pop” is that we seem to be discussing as a genre of music in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/149 "2016-04-25T04:35:40Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I don’t know how to respond to this; what would an artist have to do, in your opinion, to transcend a genre? Write great songs that don’t fit into the genre? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/150 "2016-04-25T04:50:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > “A black popular musician” can be a descriptive phrase for a particular person. But I don’t think I know what this “black pop” is that we seem to be discussing as a genre of music in this thread. You know that black music had its own charts for like, ever. If it doesn’t anymore then it must be a recent development. How could it be so confusing? The most integrated time for the charts was in the 60s and 70s… whoops we can’t talk about that. Forget I mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/151 "2016-04-25T05:02:37Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > You know he wrote Manic Monday for The Bangles, Nothing Compares 2 U for Sinead O’Connor, When You Were Mine - the Cyndi Lauper hit, and Stevie Nick’s Stand Back? > > Cause you know, when I think “Black pop music” The Bangles are what springs to mind. So your point is that we live in a post racial world because prince+Bangles? Because when you think of great popular songs “Manic Monday” is what springs to mind? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/152 "2016-04-25T09:10:23Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > So your point is that we live in a post racial world because prince+Bangles? > > Because when you think of great popular songs “Manic Monday” is what springs to mind? No, their point was that you were unqualified to comment due to your own self professed ignorance, and implied bias. You’re still illustrating that. Prince did transcend the genre you’re placing him in, you’ve been shown that; and now you’re refusing to back down from your dubious, ignorant claim. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/153 "2016-04-25T09:31:18Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > So your point is that we live in a post racial world because prince+Bangles? > > Because when you think of great popular songs “Manic Monday” is what springs to mind? No. Because Prince succeeded in the worlds of white rock & roll–and pop. While still being beloved in the African-American community. He transcended the musical ghetto. Which is only supported by those absolutely ignorant of American musical history. And by racists. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/154 "2016-04-25T10:19:47Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You know that black music had its own charts for like, ever. If it doesn’t anymore then it must be a recent development. How could it be so confusing? > > The most integrated time for the charts was in the 60s and 70s… whoops we can’t talk about that. Forget I mentioned it. Show me where Billboard used the term “black pop” on a chart. Not some other term. That exact term. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/155 "2016-04-25T10:23:43Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And just for you, I’m willing to grant that he is 3 sigma above the mean in terms of sexiness as well 😛 And he did that while wearing high heels, too! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/156 "2016-04-25T10:35:33Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > You know he wrote Manic Monday for The Bangles, Nothing Compares 2 U for Sinead O’Connor, When You Were Mine - the Cyndi Lauper hit, and Stevie Nick’s Stand Back? > > Cause you know, when I think “Black pop music” The Bangles are what springs to mind. Don’t forget “I Can’t Make You Love Me”–which Bonnie Raitt made a big hit. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/157 "2016-04-25T11:51:34Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > So your point is that we live in a post racial world because prince+Bangles? > > Because when you think of great popular songs “Manic Monday” is what springs to mind? No, but “Nothing Compares 2 U” would. Then again, the Irish are the blacks of Europe, or at least that’s what the movie “the Commitments” tells me. I don’t quite understand what black pop is. I know you mentioned The Ojays and Kool and the Gang, the Jackson 5, George Clinton and James Brown. I hear both Clinton and Brown in his music, sometimes. Though I don’t hear it in his Rock songs like Let’s Go Crazy, which honestly sounds so much like the later Tom Petty song You Wreck Me that I have had the two mashed up in my head together for the last 48 hours. Little Red Corvette and Raspberry Beret also sound like nothing that either Clinton or Brown would release. Jackson and Prince came up at the same time and have similar influences so there is some common ground there even though their music ended up going in totally different directions. You don’t mention anyone modern, but I hear a lot of Prince influence in a lot of modern pop. Rihanna and Taylor Swift down to boy bands like One Direction. But I also hear a lot of his influence in late 90s British Pop like Blur. Different influence, different styles of music. More overtly modern funk and hip hop artists seem to be heavily influenced. From now old white guys like the Red Hot Chili Peppers to up and commers like Janelle Monae (who, side note recorded an amazing song with Prince called “Give the People What they Want”. Check it out). Just a ton of his music sounds like it has more in common with early 80s era Talking Heads than any other contemporary band. Of course they were mostly famous for being both black and pop… Wait a second, I meant to say that while they were neither black nor pop they did make rhythm centric music which was loosely inspired by the same “world beat” that indirectly (very indirectly, I mean you have to go back to the late 1800s to find common ancestors indirectly) inspired James Brown. So, more of the same I guess. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/158 "2016-04-25T11:57:35Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > So your point is that we live in a post racial world because prince+Bangles? > > Because when you think of great popular songs “Manic Monday” is what springs to mind? No. My point is that Prince did not merely write black pop. And if that is all you hear when you are listening, its because you don’t know his catalog. Have you heard Controversy? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/159 "2016-04-25T12:04:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Show me where Billboard used the term “black pop” on a chart. Not some other term. That exact term. Story told before. Friday, March 13th, 1987. It was my birthday. I had an exam on Monday but Rebeldes were having a show in Barcelona’s Estudio 54 and I said “fuck this shit, I’m going to the concert!” So I went. Their fans were a rarefied enough group that everybody knew everybody else; people asked me “hey, haven’t seen you before”, I explained I was there in college, first year, some guys ripped one of the posters off from a wall to give me as a present (I still have it!). At one point we saw some people that looked like Prince and what could be his entourage climbing to the VIP area. It could be him, since he was going to have a show, but it made no sense: why would Prince be at a RockaBilly concert? They left after a couple of songs. I understood what the mess-up had been when, years later, I discovered that in the US Prince was considered Rhythm and Blues. The color of his skin got him filed in a different musical classification than other people who played his songs, not because the songs themselves were that much different but just because of looks. Congratulations on growing out of that piece of stupidity, by the way. But **Acsenray** , sticking your fingers in your ears doesn’t mean it didn’t exist! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/160 "2016-04-25T12:09:03Z")
He also wrote “Sugar Walls” for Sheena Easton, which was a vast improvement over her previous “For Your Eyes Only” or - worse - “9 To 5” (a.k.a. “Morning Train”), one of the songs most likely to cause me to go into a PTSD fugue and stab everyone in a shopping mall. But I digress. I was never a Michael Jackson fan, and have never purchased one of his albums or songs. I think he was a dysfunctional weirdo and potential pedophile with a lot of weird dance moves. But at even a cursory glance I can see the enormous creative genius in his songwriting (for himself and others), his singing, his showmanship and his ability to reinvent himself ahead of the curve, even if those reinventions sometimes went awry. Prince is the same - I haven’t listened to much beyond his popular offerings (although I confess an odd fondness for “Sometimes It Snows In April”) but the man was very obviously incredibly good at what he did and he did it in his own way even when it went against what the popular music industry wanted. Weird, yes, but definitely a genius. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=9)