# Why is Prince considered to be a genius? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896 "2016-04-23T13:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/161 "2016-04-25T13:03:10Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > No. My point is that Prince did not merely write black pop. And if that is all you hear when you are listening, its because you don’t know his catalog. > > Have you heard Controversy? See, and this is where his not having music that is easily stream able makes things tough. I just listened to What’s My Name on the Prince tribute station, which sounded like PFunk produced by Trent Reznor. Totally different sound from what you think of as Prince. But I can’t link to it. Similarly I can link to The Truth a beautiful solo acoustic blues piece. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/162 "2016-04-25T13:22:14Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Story told before. This story doesn’t answer my question. We are using the term “black pop” in this thread. So far as I know, “black pop” is not a term used to describe genre of music and it is not a chart category on any major listing service. Again, show me a Billboard chart with the title “BLACK POP” _using that exact terminology_. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/163 "2016-04-25T13:32:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Don’t forget “I Can’t Make You Love Me”–which Bonnie Raitt made a big hit. Prince was a genius, but [Mike Reed and Allen Shamblin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can%27t_Make_You_Love_Me)wrote that one. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/164 "2016-04-25T13:33:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Just have to give a shout out to **WordMan** : > > I wonder sometimes, **WordMan** , if you realize what a positive addition you are to this board. Any time a music thread I’m interested in comes up I always look to see what you have to say. And I appreciate the intelligent and diplomatic way you deal with threadshitters and with those of us who sometimes post about music you don’t care for _cough_ smooth jazz _cough_. I’ve always thought it’s a shame that for whatever reason you’ve had to make your living outside of music, because your love and encyclopedic knowledge of it is remarkable and it’s clearly a major passion in your life. All in all, you’re just a really cool guy and I just wanted to let you know you’re appreciated. 🙂 Hey, thank you. Very cool to read! **Enter the Flagon** - thank you, too. As for this discussion, yes, going in with a starting position that Prince fit into “this box” - whatever box you try to name, but especially “black pop” - means you aren’t listening to the music. Not sure what else to say, **drad dog**. Your posts have keep the thread going, so that is cool, but man, your approach just ain’t working. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/165 "2016-04-25T13:35:00Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Prince was a genius, but [Mike Reed and Allen Shamblin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can%27t_Make_You_Love_Me)wrote that one. Yeah, I was just looking up I Can’t Make You Love Me. Not a problem - Prince wrote songs for Bonnie Raitt - he reached out to her after she severed ties with Warner Brothers (heh) and they recorded a few. ETA: I don’t know that “black pop” is a term used anywhere. It doesn’t change the fact that you could use any limited, racially-boxed name - Prince is R&B!!! - and be just as incorrect and potentially offensive as if you use black pop. His work - his chords, his arrangements, his production - so _clearly_ transcends those types of silly boxes that it is not worth discussing unless someone is looking for examples outside “silly box X” to be educated. Those examples have been provided here. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/166 "2016-04-25T13:45:25Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > See, and this is where his not having music that is easily stream able makes things tough. > > I just listened to What’s My Name on the Prince tribute station, which sounded like PFunk produced by Trent Reznor. Totally different sound from what you think of as Prince. But I can’t link to it. Similarly I can link to The Truth a beautiful solo acoustic blues piece. And collecting all his albums would be price prohibitive. I’m way more familiar with his early stuff - the Controversy and Dirty Minds albums are the two I need to go back and rebuy (I had everything up through Purple Rain on vinyl- they disappeared somewhere along the line - probably in my divorce - and only 1999 digitally - Somewhere I had the Musicology CD, but lost that. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/167 "2016-04-25T14:01:58Z")
I am pretty uninterested in trying to convince anyone, now, who has ‘heard’ but does not at all get Prince. Y’all do as you like, but don’t get too frustrated. I suspect that people who haven’t been touched by him already just don’t share the musical language needed to understand. It’s not a moral failing, I guess. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/168 "2016-04-25T14:29:28Z")
[QUOTE=Peremensoe] I am pretty uninterested in trying to convince anyone, now, who has ‘heard’ but does not at all get Prince. Y’all do as you like, but don’t get too frustrated. I suspect that people who haven’t been touched by him already just don’t share the musical language needed to understand. It’s not a moral failing, I guess. 😛 [/QUOTE] This thread has made me feel enormously fortunate that I’ve gotten to “know” Prince all of these years. If I was as unfamiliar with him as some people are, I would seriously be feeling left out and befuddled by the bruhaha too. It would seem over the top and ridiculous and overwrought, as an outsider looking in. But none of the public outpouring of emotions seems absurd to me. I get it 100%. Its comforting to know that others are reeling from this tragedy as much as I am, because it just underscores that my relationship with his music was not unique. He will not be forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/169 "2016-04-25T15:28:48Z")
I read they found a safe in Princes house which has hundreds of unreleased recordings. They plan on slowly releasing them which will take years so Prince’s music will still be coming out new and fresh for generations. BTW, does anyone else notice that his death from a combination of health and drug issues sounds alot like Elvis’s? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/170 "2016-04-25T15:29:54Z")
This discussion is all very interesting, but no less a musical luminary than Miles Davis celebrated Prince as heralding new and innovative styles of music and was reportedly obsessed with him. In his autobiography he said, “For me, he can be the new Duke Ellington of our time if he just keeps at it.” This is like Albert Einstein saying, “You could be pretty good at this physics stuff and win a Nobel Prize if is you keep at it.” Although I’m not a musician, don’t pretend to be an expert at what makes genius in popular music, and I’m not a huge fan of most of the popular songs of prince that received broad airplay, I don’t think anyone here is sufficiently credentialed to even challenge Davis’ estimation of Prince as an artist. Game over. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/171 "2016-04-25T15:33:56Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I read they found a safe in Princes house which has hundreds of unreleased recordings. They plan on slowly releasing them which will take years so Prince’s music will still be coming out new and fresh for generations. > > BTW, does anyone else notice that his death from a combination of health and drug issues sounds alot like Elvis’s? I can’t be arsed to go back and review the thread to see if I have said this: yes, Prince has more output in his vaults, unreleased, than, like, 10 other artists of his stature. I was reading an interview of the co-producer of his most recent albums, who is also married to the woman drummer in 3rd Eye Girl, Prince’s current backing band. He said they were talking about a video for one of the songs, and Prince casually mentioned that he had over 50 videos he had completed but never released. That’s just the songs he made videos for. As for the drugs - look, I will keep an open mind and listen to what the autopsy reports. I simply can’t imaging these two topics co-existing: he was the most productive musician I can think of - writing, producing, performing. I just can’t conceive how he could be that productive at such a high level of quality and have a severe drug problem. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/172 "2016-04-25T15:34:24Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Story told before. > > Friday, March 13th, 1987. It was my birthday. I had an exam on Monday but Rebeldes were having a show in Barcelona’s Estudio 54 and I said “fuck this shit, I’m going to the concert!” > > So I went. Their fans were a rarefied enough group that everybody knew everybody else; people asked me “hey, haven’t seen you before”, I explained I was there in college, first year, some guys ripped one of the posters off from a wall to give me as a present (I still have it!). > > At one point we saw some people that looked like Prince and what could be his entourage climbing to the VIP area. It could be him, since he was going to have a show, but it made no sense: why would Prince be at a RockaBilly concert? > > They left after a couple of songs. I understood what the mess-up had been when, years later, I discovered that in the US Prince was considered Rhythm and Blues. The color of his skin got him filed in a different musical classification than other people who played his songs, not because the songs themselves were that much different but just because of looks. > > Congratulations on growing out of that piece of stupidity, by the way. But **Acsenray** , sticking your fingers in your ears doesn’t mean it didn’t exist! Prince was clearly a gifted musician who even though he had no “classic” musical training still really understood cords and the basics. I dont know if I can find it but their is a great video on Facebook showing Prince before a concert in Japan sitting at a piano going doing a sound check and going over cords and sounds with his bandmates. [Here it is.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVeUvo5COI) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/173 "2016-04-25T15:35:03Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > This discussion is all very interesting, but no less a musical luminary than Miles Davis celebrated Prince as heralding new and innovative styles of music and was reportedly obsessed with him. In his autobiography he said, “For me, he can be the new Duke Ellington of our time if he just keeps at it.” This is like Albert Einstein saying, “You could be pretty good at this physics stuff and win a Nobel Prize if is you keep at it.” > > Although I’m not a musician, don’t pretend to be an expert at what makes genius in popular music, and I’m not a huge fan of most of the popular songs of prince that received broad airplay, I don’t think anyone here is sufficiently credentialed to even challenge Davis’ estimation of Prince as an artist. > > Game over. > > Stranger So fucking true. ---
**Author:** ![Lowdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Lowdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowdown)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/174 "2016-04-25T15:37:52Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > When asked what it feels like to be the world’s greatest guitarist, Eric Clapton replied, “I don’t know. Ask Prince.” It’s driving me crazy that it’s getting repeated all over the internet, as there is no source. If you can find a source, I’d love it. (I haven’t been able to.) I’m pretty sure people are mistaking Jimi Hendrix saying this about Rory Gallagher. (Which is true.) ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/175 "2016-04-25T15:42:09Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > This discussion is all very interesting, but no less a musical luminary than Miles Davis celebrated Prince as heralding new and innovative styles of music and was reportedly obsessed with him. In his autobiography he said, “For me, he can be the new Duke Ellington of our time if he just keeps at it.” This is like Albert Einstein saying, “You could be pretty good at this physics stuff and win a Nobel Prize if is you keep at it.” > > Although I’m not a musician, don’t pretend to be an expert at what makes genius in popular music, and I’m not a huge fan of most of the popular songs of prince that received broad airplay, I don’t think anyone here is sufficiently credentialed to even challenge Davis’ estimation of Prince as an artist. > > Game over. > > Stranger Yeah, I really don’t get people who say “His music does nothing for me” and then transition that into “Overrated” or that someone is not incredibly talented. I know it’s an overused meme, but as the Dude would say > [@](#): > > "Well, that’s just like your opinion, man. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/176 "2016-04-25T15:45:20Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Prince was clearly a gifted musician who even though he had no “classic” musical training still really understood cords and the basics. I dont know if I can find it but their is a great video on Facebook showing Prince before a concert in Japan sitting at a piano going doing a sound check and going over cords and sounds with his bandmates. > > [Here it is.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVeUvo5COI) Chords. I’m sure the one thing you’d never catch Prince wearing would be cords. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/177 "2016-04-25T15:53:36Z")
> [@Lowdown](#): > > I’m pretty sure people are mistaking Jimi Hendrix saying this about Rory Gallagher. (Which is true.) Nah :). I love pre-metal Rory Gallagher’s playing ( not so much his original lyrics ), but as far as anyone can determine Hendrix never said that. Or at least no one has ever come up with a decent cite that I’ve ever seen. It appears to be yet another example of [this](https://xkcd.com/978/). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/178 "2016-04-25T15:55:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Prince was clearly a gifted musician who even though he had no “classic” musical training still really understood cords and the basics. I dont know if I can find it but their is a great video on Facebook showing Prince before a concert in Japan sitting at a piano going doing a sound check and going over cords and sounds with his bandmates. > > [Here it is.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVeUvo5COI) His father was a jazz musician (piano) and his mother was a jazz singer. He was involved in high school band. He had musical training. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/179 "2016-04-25T15:58:35Z")
There’s a great story told by Bruce Rodgers, the Production Designer for the Super Bowl performance Prince did. When he awoke the morning of the SB, and saw the torrential rain, he (Bruce Rodgers) checked the forecast for the rest of the day. The rain was not going to go away. He says he called Prince and asked something like “It’s raining, are you going to be able to do the show?” Prince’s response? “Can you make it rain harder” Prince knew the visuals and theatrics would be even more impressive if they were being done in a driving rainstorm. The result was a mind blowing performance ranked as one of the best halftime performances ever. ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896/180 "2016-04-25T15:58:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Chords. > I’m sure the one thing you’d never catch Prince wearing would be cords. > 😃 But if he had decided to, they’d have been sexy as hell. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-prince-considered-to-be-a-genius/752896.md?page=10)