# Why is rap allowed to be so shamelessly commercial? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 7, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495 "2004-09-07T16:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/21 "2004-09-08T01:07:00Z")
No, but you’re only exposed to the shameless MTV marketed versions of rap, the stuff that gives it a bad name. Find me some rampant materialism on _Straight Outta Compton, It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back, Fear Of A Black Planet, Stankonia, Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, Ill Communication, Paul’s Botique, O.G. Original Gangsta, The Marshall Mathers LP, The Slim Shady LP, Me Against The World, etc._ That is what real rap music is about. What you are saying is equivalent to saying punk rock is all about hanging out with your sk8er boi after listening to Avril Lavigne. You’re generalizing about a genre after listening to the abolute bottom of the barrel, deplorably commercial and overhyped shit that gets pushed by the record companies on MTV. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/22 "2004-09-08T01:26:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, if it’s not, then > > 1. Why is it so many rappers DO rap about this stuff - I realize some don’t, but quite a few do, and todeny it is akin to denying that pop musicians don’t sing love songs because you listen to some who don’t, and > > 2. Why is it that the consumers of the music eat it up like popcorn? > > Are you telling me I’m seeing and hearing things? 1. It’s my experience that far more don’t than do; what you’re seeing the most heavily marketed subgenre. 2. The consumers of marketing eat it up; the consumers of music look elsewhere. You’re not seeing and hearing things, but you’re extrapolating an untrue generalization from limited anecdotal experience. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/23 "2004-09-08T01:28:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Why is it that the consumers of the music eat it up like popcorn? Because they’re teenagers. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the musical taste of teenagers. > [@](#): > > Are you telling me I’m seeing and hearing things? No. We’re telling you that you’re not seeing and hearing things–in this case, the vast number of rappers who have something worthwhile to say. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/24 "2004-09-08T02:34:24Z")
Due to my very unfortunate geographic circumstances, I am routinely exposed to articles in the local media (both establishment and alternative) on many of the most famous (or soon to be famous) hip hop “artists”. Adopting the Conspicuous Consumption Lifestyle is an absolute _must_ if you want to move up in the business. The kids won’t take you seriously unless you do the multi-gold chain crap and all the other signs of quasi-pimphood. (So even the lowest level never-will-be’s adopt it.) This is _widely_ acknowledged by the performers and producers. _Widely_. There is no attempt to cover this up at all, quite the opposite. (However, you have to come _from_ a poor background, and few of these people actually qualify. So there’s a lot of _faux_ “I’m a poor kid from the hood.” nonsense going on.) Within such a system, naming brands is important in showing you know which products are _currently_ held in high esteem. Look, we’re talking about the culture that gave us such endearing terms like “bling bling.” It’s _all_ about the money and _everyone_ knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/25 "2004-09-08T03:32:08Z")
Yes, and ‘rock’ music is all about being a sk8er punk and wearing torn clothes and playing the same three chords while rasping throuh your tongue stud about being in soCal summers. Everyone in the business acknowledges it. Some people don’t have tongue studs and aren’t soCal, so they fake it. That is all that rock and roll music is about. This culture gave us endearing terms like “sex, drugs and rock and roll.” It’s all about being punk sk8ers, and everyone know it. That’s all there is to rock music. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/26 "2004-09-08T04:07:17Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > 1. It’s my experience that far more don’t than do; what you’re seeing the most heavily marketed subgenre. Fine, then that’s the subgenre of rap we’re talking about in this thread. There happens to exist a subgenre of rap dedicated to bragging about stuff like wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/27 "2004-09-08T04:12:30Z")
Yes, but most rap artists don’t… only the most heavily marketed ones do and it’s folly to try to paint all rappers with one brush. It’s the equivalent of believing all Christians are homophobic harpies or child molestors because the Southern Baptists or the Catholic clergymen that took advantage of altar boys when that obviously is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![LilCutie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@LilCutie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilCutie)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/28 "2004-09-08T04:35:39Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > So many hit songs in the rap genre are just catchy commercials (Pass the Courvosier, **Do the Rocawear** …etc). Actually, (bolding MINE) the song is called"Lean Back" and he’s saying to do the ROCK-A-WAY. Jenny\* ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/29 "2004-09-08T06:07:12Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Due to my very unfortunate geographic circumstances, I am routinely exposed to articles in the local media (both establishment and alternative) on many of the most famous (or soon to be famous) hip hop “artists”. Adopting the Conspicuous Consumption Lifestyle is an absolute _must_ if you want to move up in the business. The kids won’t take you seriously unless you do the multi-gold chain crap and all the other signs of quasi-pimphood. (So even the lowest level never-will-be’s adopt it.) > > This is _widely_ acknowledged by the performers and producers. _Widely_. There is no attempt to cover this up at all, quite the opposite. (However, you have to come _from_ a poor background, and few of these people actually qualify. So there’s a lot of _faux_ “I’m a poor kid from the hood.” nonsense going on.) > > Within such a system, naming brands is important in showing you know which products are _currently_ held in high esteem. > > Look, we’re talking about the culture that gave us such endearing terms like “bling bling.” It’s _all_ about the money and _everyone_ knows it. This is an interesting local anecdote. What locality are you in? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/30 "2004-09-08T06:24:19Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Fine, then that’s the subgenre of rap we’re talking about in this thread. There happens to exist a subgenre of rap dedicated to bragging about stuff like wealth. Um, no; the OP is about “rap music,” not about “that subgenre of rap that is distinguished by its unabashed commercialism.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/31 "2004-09-08T07:00:56Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Maybe it’s just that it’s a characteristic of the genre itself. People expect to hear bragging in rap, and they don’t in rock. No way. Rock today might be more about whining than bragging, but there’s plenty of swagger in older rock. And more importantly, there’s loads of it in the blues, which I think has more in common with rap than people sometimes realize. There’s not that much commercial brand name-dropping, but there’s plenty of self-aggrandizement. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/32 "2004-09-08T07:16:18Z")
You have a point lissener, but you are running dangerously close to the No True Scotsnizzle fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/33 "2004-09-08T07:19:26Z")
> [@hawthorne](#): > > You have a point lissener, but you are running dangerously close to the No True Scotsnizzle fallacy. Thanks in advance for explaining that. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/34 "2004-09-08T14:34:31Z")
The true scotsnizzle fallacy goes something like this: Person A: fo nizzle, all da bruthas from scotsnizzle wear da kilts Person B: You be shittin me dawg. I be from scotsnizzle and I aint no wear no mofo kilt. Person A: Ait, but that coz you aint a TRUE scotsnizzle. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/35 "2004-09-08T18:17:21Z")
> [@hawthorne](#): > > You have a point lissener, but you are running dangerously close to the No True Scotsnizzle fallacy. I don’t see that at all. Care to explain? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/36 "2004-09-08T19:36:36Z")
Look. The OP, who is familiar with one subgenre of rap, took a particular attribut of that subgenre and extrapolated it to a generalization of the whole genre. Then I said, “No, that’s pretty much just that subgenre; you’re generalization is not accurate.” See? No fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/37 "2004-09-08T21:25:08Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I read an article relatively recently (NYTimes maybe?) about the growing practice of compensated product placement on Rap albums. This is disappointing and yet unsurprising. I mean, really: As invasive as product placement has become, I’ve occasionally mulled the vast number of other opportunities that are still out there for it. For example, what would stop a middlingly-successful standup comic, someone like Mitch Hedberg or Greg Behrendt or somebody like that who gets occasional TV exposure, from calling Haagen Dazs and offering to include a five-minute bit in his nationaly-touring performance that includes a minimum of two mentions of how yummy the ice cream is, if they’ll write him a four or five figure check in exchange? Hmmm. Maybe there’s a whole new thread here, “New outlets for product placement.” Hmmmmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Padmaraga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@Padmaraga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padmaraga)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/38 "2004-09-08T21:51:38Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > There is good rap out there… HAHAHAHAhahahahaha_cough_cough\* ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/39 "2004-09-08T22:00:37Z")
I’m going to repeat a lot of what’s already been said, so I apologize. That said, no, not all rap is commercialized Cash Money/ Master P materialism. The OP is partially correct: “So many hit songs in the rap genre are just catchy commercials.” That’s true, but I don’t see the double standard. Popular music has pretty much always been somebody singing about either how great they are or how shitty their life is, set to catchy tunes. Some flavor of the month pop rapper talking about how much paper he’s got isn’t much different than George Thorogood or AC-DC talking about how badass they are, or Rod Stewart talking about how many chicks he’s bagged. It’s mostly about money nowadays because that’s what the community respects/ aspires to more than anything else. Why do all the popular rappers seem like commercial sellouts? Because they sold out to commercialization in order to get popular. You want to be a pop idol, you try to identify yourself as whatever people will respond to. The “Cribs” generation wants to see the rims, the expensive champagne, the Escalades, and the platinum watches. So that’s what they get. As **lissener** , **Ilsa** , and others have tried to point out, though, that’s not what the art form is about. The Nellys and the Chingys of the world are just rap versions of Britney Spears and Shania Twain- easily digestible, heavily processed cheese-food music. Try to find a Public Enemy song about cars, and you’ll see the difference. Just because you haven’t heard substantive rap doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Hell, the better it is in some cases, the less likely you are to know it exists. Don’t blame the artists for that, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495/40 "2004-09-08T22:14:38Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Try to find a Public Enemy song about cars, and you’ll see the difference. Public Enemy - You’re Gonna Get Yours (My 98 Olds) - _Yo! Bum Rush The Show_, 1987. 😉 But seriously, go listen to some of the albums I listed and report back to us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-rap-allowed-to-be-so-shamelessly-commercial/263495.md?page=3)