# Why is raw chicken the napalm of meats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 6, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571 "2012-08-06T00:59:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/21 "2012-08-06T05:36:53Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I am just guessing here but I wonder if this has anything to do with it? The contamination ‘seeps’ in by way of the open pores of the birds; which is then beaten in further. Beef isn’t handled this way (is it?). That is part of the problem. But the biggest factor is simply that the carcasses are treated carelessly and washed commonly. So ruptured guts are common and any instance contaminates all carcasses processed for the next umpteen hours. Cattle carcasses are treated much more carefully and are hosed clean rather than bath washed. Little chance of contamination and little chance for multiple carcasses to be contaminated. Contamination can easily spread throughout the muscles via the blood an lymph vessels even without any “beating”. The vertebrate body comes with a system of pipes that is purpose built to \*ensure \*that cells are able to move freely throughout the flesh. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/22 "2012-08-06T05:52:20Z")
[Whole Cuts of Meat Can Hide Salmonella](http://www.rodale.com/whole-cuts-meat-salmonella-and-food-poisoning) > [@](#): > > THE DETAILS: Researchers sampled ground and whole cut pieces of beef from the same original lot and contaminated it with Salmonella, a type of bacteria found in the digestive tracts of humans and animals. Because it lives in animals, the bacterium can contaminate the meat during the slaughtering process, explains Marks. Workers who don’t wash their hands, or use contaminated surfaces, can also spread the bacteria. When people eat food contaminated with Salmonella, they develop fever, abdominal cramps, and diarrhea, which can last for up to a week. Victims usually recover without treatment, though a person with a weak immune system can develop more serious problems. The interior portions of whole cuts of beef like steaks or roasts have long been assumed to be sterile, but contamination and survival of pathogens have been reported. This study found Salmonella hiding deep inside whole cuts of meat. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/23 "2012-08-06T06:58:38Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [Whole Cuts of Meat Can Hide Salmonella](http://www.rodale.com/whole-cuts-meat-salmonella-and-food-poisoning) Quote: THE DETAILS: Researchers sampled ground and whole cut pieces of beef from the same original lot and contaminated it with Salmonella, a type of bacteria found in the digestive tracts of humans and animals. Because it lives in animals, the bacterium can contaminate the meat during the slaughtering process, explains Marks. Workers who don’t wash their hands, or use contaminated surfaces, can also spread the bacteria. When people eat food contaminated with Salmonella, they develop fever, abdominal cramps, and diarrhea, which can last for up to a week. Victims usually recover without treatment, though a person with a weak immune system can develop more serious problems. The interior portions of whole cuts of beef like steaks or roasts have long been assumed to be sterile, but contamination and survival of pathogens have been reported. **This study found Salmonella hiding deep inside whole cuts of meat.** The bolded part is what I was unaware of and what really scares me. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/24 "2012-08-06T11:23:23Z")
Aren’t chicken eggs also contaminated with salmonella? I never eat anything containing raw egg. There must be something about the ecology of chickens that allows the salmonella bacterium to flourish in them. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/25 "2012-08-06T11:40:02Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Aren’t chicken eggs also contaminated with salmonella? > I never eat anything containing raw egg. There must be something about the ecology of chickens that allows the salmonella bacterium to flourish in them. More like the “ecology” of factory farming. Pathogens spread very quickly through overcrowded and stressed populations. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/26 "2012-08-06T12:07:50Z")
Speaking as someone who got a campylobacter infection from undercooked chicken, I’d rather have eaten napalm. I just about managed to avoid going to hospital but it was a close-run thing for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/27 "2012-08-06T12:11:17Z")
I love the smell of raw chicken in the morning. It smells like breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/28 "2012-08-06T12:31:34Z")
I have eaten raw chicken, in a restaurant in Tokyo, with no ill effects. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/29 "2012-08-06T12:59:06Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > More like the “ecology” of factory farming. Pathogens spread very quickly through overcrowded and stressed populations. Not quite. Researchers have found that even free-range chickens are contaminated with salmonella. Frankly, its enough to make you turn vegetarian. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/30 "2012-08-06T13:03:55Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Quote: > THE DETAILS: Researchers sampled ground and whole cut pieces of beef from the same original lot and contaminated it with Salmonella, a type of bacteria found in the digestive tracts of humans and animals. Because it lives in animals, the bacterium can contaminate the meat during the slaughtering process, explains Marks. Workers who don’t wash their hands, or use contaminated surfaces, can also spread the bacteria. When people eat food contaminated with Salmonella, they develop fever, abdominal cramps, and diarrhea, which can last for up to a week. Victims usually recover without treatment, though a person with a weak immune system can develop more serious problems. The interior portions of whole cuts of beef like steaks or roasts have long been assumed to be sterile, but contamination and survival of pathogens have been reported. **This study found Salmonella hiding deep inside whole cuts of meat.** > > The bolded part is what I was unaware of and what really scares me. I have no doubt that salmonella can contaminate whole cuts of beef, so when the research deliberately contaminate a cut to prove it, I’m not certain what the value is. It does take a certain number of bacteria to get sick. I’ve eaten rare steak for 30 years without a problem. I still think the probability of getting sick is extremely low. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/31 "2012-08-06T13:07:18Z")
I used to watch Sara Moulton on the food network all the time. She was a freak about this issue and it has caused me to be rather squicked out about working with chicken. Of course, I now own a deli and have to work with it every damn day. I wish I had a hazmat suit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/32 "2012-08-06T13:53:47Z")
Raw chicken isn’t that common in Japan. If fact, it’s really rare. :: ducks out of thread :: ouch ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/33 "2012-08-06T16:28:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Aren’t chicken eggs also contaminated with salmonella? > I never eat anything containing raw egg. There must be something about the ecology of chickens that allows the salmonella bacterium to flourish in them. The inside of the egg is not, but the outside is. Since chickens only have one vent/cloaca, eggs are necessarily being contaminated with feces as they are laid. Commercial eggs are washed before they go to the store, but nothing is perfect. There are brands of eggs that are even heat treated to further reduce the risk of bacteria surviving. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/34 "2012-08-06T16:39:51Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [Whole Cuts of Meat Can Hide Salmonella](http://www.rodale.com/whole-cuts-meat-salmonella-and-food-poisoning) If you read further, it states that salmonella is still unable to penetrate undisturbed tissue ,consisten with what was previously known. An infection vector can be present through “jaccard” tenderized meat where tiny needles are pushed through the meat to increase tenderness which is already a known infection vector. The solution is to never buy store jaccarded meat which, unfortunately, has no label requirement and can be hard to visually spot. The solution is to buy a home jaccarding blade and to jaccard immediately before cooking. You’ll still be pushing minute amounts of salmonella into the interior muscle but they won’t have time to grow before consumption so levels should remain low. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/35 "2012-08-06T16:43:17Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > The inside of the egg is not, but the outside is. Since chickens only have one vent/cloaca, eggs are necessarily being contaminated with feces as they are laid. Commercial eggs are washed before they go to the store, but nothing is perfect. There are brands of eggs that are even heat treated to further reduce the risk of bacteria surviving. The interior of the egg can be contaminated if the [ovaries were contaminated when the egg was formed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonella#Deaths). The CDC claims only [1 in 20,000](http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/salmonella_enteritidis/#eggs) eggs are contaminated so it’s a reasonably risk free disease vector. If you’re extra paranoid, use pasteurized eggs which behave similar to raw eggs but are guaranteed not to contain salmonella. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/36 "2012-08-06T16:55:41Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Speaking as someone who got a campylobacter infection from undercooked chicken, I’d rather have eaten napalm. I just about managed to avoid going to hospital but it was a close-run thing for a while. Wait till you have a few bad raw oysters. A bad shellfish sick is like no other sick in the world. I honestly thought I would die on my bathroom floor. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/37 "2012-08-06T16:56:34Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > If you merely sear beef steak, you are at risk of getting every bits as sick as if you sear chicken. People develop nasty food poisonings, especially _E. coli_ infection, from undercooked beef all the time. With both chicken and beef, your cooking needs to take \*all \*the flesh up to ~50^oC to be safe. If you are searing the outside and the inside remains frozen, you are at risk. What? Do you have a cite for an e.coli outbreak that’s happened from whole muscle beef happening “all the time”? So far, I’ve found one recall case in 2009 from “non-intact” beef in which several people got sick and one case in 2012 which there were no reported illnesses. I’ve found no cases in which non-non-intact beef was recalled due to e.coli. It’s certainly inaccurate to say that it’s just as risky as chicken, which is recalled all the time due to contamination. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/38 "2012-08-06T17:25:09Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > If you read further, it states that salmonella is still unable to penetrate undisturbed tissue ,consisten with what was previously known. An infection vector can be present through “jaccard” tenderized meat where tiny needles are pushed through the meat to increase tenderness which is already a known infection vector. The solution is to never buy store jaccarded meat which, unfortunately, has no label requirement and can be hard to visually spot. The solution is to buy a home jaccarding blade and to jaccard immediately before cooking. You’ll still be pushing minute amounts of salmonella into the interior muscle but they won’t have time to grow before consumption so levels should remain low. OK - this is what I always thought; whole undisturbed muscle = safe. Of course using a jaccard is going to infect the meat, that’s a no-brainer. So what’s the clear answer? ---
**Author:** ![Satellite\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Satellite\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satellite_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/39 "2012-08-07T05:35:32Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > OK - this is what I always thought; whole undisturbed muscle = safe. > Of course using a jaccard is going to infect the meat, that’s a no-brainer. > So what’s the clear answer? I usually go to the local butcher shop, for ribeye (for myself), and NY strip (for Sat^Gal.) I imagine they don’t jaccard either of these, as neither is known as a cut needing tenderizing. Incidentally, I like mine Medium, while she likes hers Medium-Well. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571/40 "2012-08-07T07:38:22Z")
> [@Satellite\_Guy](#): > > I usually go to the local butcher shop, for ribeye (for myself), and NY strip (for Sat^Gal.) > I imagine they don’t jaccard either of these, as neither is known as a cut needing tenderizing. Incidentally, I like mine Medium, while she likes hers Medium-Well. That’s actually not true. Nathan Mhyrvold (of Modernist Cuisine fame) [claims that](http://forums.egullet.org/index.php/topic/50020-jaccardizing-meat-tenderizing-by-piercing/page __p__ 704386#entry704386): > [@](#): > > The Jaccard side of the Choice steak was similar in texture to the un-Jaccarded side of the Prime - very tender. As one of the posts above says, it is probably similar to tenderloin / fillet mignon in tenderness. Of course that is very subjective, and typically the cut is different. But it was plenty tender. > > The Jaccarded side of the Prime was somewhat more tender than the un-Jaccarded side. It would still be worth using the Jaccard, IMO. > > No substantial juice loss occurred while cooking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-raw-chicken-the-napalm-of-meats/630571.md?page=3)