# Why is Sanders weak in the South? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 9, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379 "2016-03-09T06:05:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/41 "2016-03-10T01:04:03Z")
Copied from a thread I screwed up posting to: One possible issue is that of electability. Any GOP administration is bad for black people so of course they’re going to try and play it safe. Plus, things are probably the best economically for black people than ever before. Why would they be stoked for an economic revolution when things are finally getting less crappy? I was talking about this with a friend who is totally “feeling the Bern,” while I’m voting for him but that’s about it. I need to remember that I’m a black person from California. I have a vastly different life experience re: race than a black person in the deep South. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/42 "2016-03-10T02:25:33Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The other good point in that article - Hillary might not be perfect, but the Clintons have a long track record with the Black community - she is therefore more trusted. That isn’t going to fix itself in the next few weeks - but the primaries are moving North and West, so maybe it won’t be such a big deal. In a very real way, I guess I can understand the black community and their views on Sanders if that article is accurate. To have a guy from a state that is 97% white come in and ask for your vote with no real track record working with the black community, I can understand their trepidation and fear he will just abandon them after the election. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/43 "2016-03-10T02:45:24Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > In a very real way, I guess I can understand the black community and their views on Sanders if that article is accurate. To have a guy from a state that is 97% white come in and ask for your vote with no real track record working with the black community, I can understand their trepidation and fear he will just abandon them after the election. Being man handled by the cops and arrested for being involved in civil rights in the 1960s does not count? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/44 "2016-03-10T03:01:37Z")
Blacks like Hillary because she’s associated with Bill, whom they liked because he came across as “cool.” They don’t like Bernie because they view him as a nerdy old white guy. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/45 "2016-03-10T03:10:10Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Being man handled by the cops and arrested for being involved in civil rights in the 1960s does not count? :dubious: As you point out, that was 50 years ago. They probably want to know what Sanders has done for their community since he became ineligible for the draft. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/46 "2016-03-10T03:20:17Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Blacks like Hillary because she’s associated with Bill, whom they liked because he came across as “cool.” They don’t like Bernie because they view him as a nerdy old white guy. This is an insanely simplistic and patronizing view of black voters. Of course black voters don’t consider things in the way white voters do, don’t weigh issues and character and ability to get things done. No, them black voters just want someone cool, someone not a nerd, in the White House. There are nonracist analyses of what’s going on with Sanders and black voters. This ain’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/47 "2016-03-10T12:50:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Being man handled by the cops and arrested for being involved in civil rights in the 1960s does not count? :dubious: Read the articles linked that were written by black people about why it “does not count.” And it counts, just not much. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/48 "2016-03-10T13:34:24Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Blacks like Hillary because she’s associated with Bill, whom they liked because he came across as “cool.” They don’t like Bernie because they view him as a nerdy old white guy. When asked in an interview if Bill Clinton were indeed “the first Black President”, primary candidate Obama replied, “We’ll have to see how well Bill dances.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/49 "2016-03-10T13:45:04Z")
So basically the question is why would anyone have expected they _would_ vote for him. Unknown entity whose only track record on issues that matter to you is having been in a few student protests over 50 years ago but whose campaign seems to think that alone counts as cred. Who is making promises that seem unrealistic and unachievable. Who has not really delivered much in actual accomplishments during a long Congressional career. Who is lecturing at you with the same basic stump speech he gives to everyone instead of listening to you with respect and addressing some specific concerns you have. Who did not go through the social networks that you respect and trust. Who demonstrates no understanding of the impacts of race independent of class and economics. Who seems unlikely to win a general election. Who you do not connect with or identify with in any way including culturally (an irreligious Jewish socialist ≠ instant bond). Whose basic premise is that Obama (high approval ratings there) has failed, that his policies are wrong-headed and inadequate, that Obama did not have the ability to deliver the people power to make real change happen, whereas _he_ would be much able to get enough people to rise up to force change. No shock the results. Some of us, Black and White and Brown alike, make judgements on more than rhetoric alone. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/50 "2016-03-10T20:28:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I doubt that has much to do with it. Rather, it’s probably the notion that he’s rather socialist and left-wing, combined with the fact that he’s a northerner/yankee. > > Combine that with the fact that Clinton is a southerner, relatively moderate, and enjoys great support in the southern black community, which is something like 20% of the total population of the region, so it’s not surprising that Bernie might not play so well in the South. Clinton also did a LOT to bring the party together after her loss to Obama; she served in his administration; she was a surrogate and her husband introduced the nation to the concept of “arithmetic” in politics during the 2012 DNC. She is effectively his political successor and the association with Obama will get you at least a few votes in the black community. That plus she has a lot of institutional history with the black community. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/51 "2016-03-10T20:34:16Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > I need to remember that I’m a black person from California. You sure about that? I thought you were Asian. Or am I thinking of someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/52 "2016-03-10T20:46:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So basically the question is why would anyone have expected they _would_ vote for him. AFAICT, they see 90+% black voters voting for Democrats so they think Blacks must be very very Democratic. Then they look at Bernie and Hillary and Hillary is barely Democrat at all. So why don’t they vote for the MORE Democratic candidate? The confusion I think, lies in the fact that Blacks are very Democratic along partisan lines based on a few issues (mostly related to race) and Bernie is very Democratic along ideological lines mostly based on economic justice issues. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/53 "2016-03-10T21:21:14Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Here is actually a fantastic article on the African-American vote in the South, written by a Daily Kos member who has been very involved in GOTV efforts: > > [Why Bernie Sanders Is Losing the Black Vote and How We Can Win It – People's War](https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2016/03/07/why-bernie-sanders-is-losing-the-black-vote-and-how-we-can-win-it/) > > There is a lot of good stuff there and it gets into some specifics, but the general takeaway is that Sanders has a horrible campaign strategy regarding Southern African-American voters (which is partially the appearance that he favors economic justice over all else) Great link. Thank’s for posting. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/54 "2016-03-10T21:36:34Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > That was interesting and has some good info. Sanders, being from a white progressive state doesn’t have to deal with the kind of hostility black people (esp in the south) have to deal with. So I can see why they would feel he may not stand up for their interests when push comes to shove. I can see in a way while Hillary would be a better pick, because she has had to deal with hostility from the right more than Bernie has. Charles Blow of the New York Times had a good piece a while back talking about the differences between Southern and Northern African-Americans, or as he put it “The children of the Great Migration and those who stayed behind”. It did remind me about how weird it is that most Americans, without thinking about it automatically put all blacks in the same box politically when anyone who did that with Northern and Southern whites would be viewed as nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/55 "2016-03-10T21:51:00Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Blacks like Hillary because she’s associated with Bill, whom they liked because he came across as “cool.” They don’t like Bernie because they view him as a nerdy old white guy. Have you ever actually met any actual black people? What you’re saying is both grossly insulting and patronizing to black people. Yes, lots of black people liked and still very much like Bill Clinton, but not because he was “cool” whereas Bernie is somehow “nerdy”. They, and particularly Southern African-Americans, liked him because he did a good job of conveying empathy and understanding. Look at how during the Michigan debate, when both candidates were asked for their racial blind spots Hillary Clinton talked about how when talking to parents of Trayvon Martin and Sandra Bland, she realized how they had to give their kids the kind of “talk” that she’d never had to give her kids and what a difference that made, and how Bernie afterwards gave that tone deaf “When you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be poor and to live in the ghetto” Bernie may not have meant to, but his comment wound up insulting two different groups who, in theory should love him, but who are turning away from him. The first are of course white people who do know what it’s like to be poor and/or live in the ghetto and the other are black people who don’t live in poverty or the ghetto. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/56 "2016-03-10T22:21:13Z")
Indeed. That sort of blacks like Clinton because he was cool narrative also ignores just how much work the Clintons have put into making one-on-one relationships with African-American leaders a priority. Minority voters (which ever minority, I’d argue) are more inclined to trust you if you seek out relationships with their leaders and seem as if you are listening to them and taking their suggestions to heart. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/57 "2016-03-10T22:31:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You need to re-word that for clearer meaning. As I understand, he’s saying black Southerners expect that when Sanders redistributes the wealth to the poor, it’s mostly going to go to the white poor – because that’s been their experience in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/58 "2016-03-10T23:40:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Look at how during the Michigan debate, when both candidates were asked for their racial blind spots Hillary Clinton talked about how when talking to parents of Trayvon Martin and Sandra Bland, she realized how they had to give their kids the kind of “talk” that she’d never had to give her kids and what a difference that made This doesn’t exactly support the idea that the Clintons have a long and personal relationship with black folks. She never heard of The Talk before that? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/59 "2016-03-11T00:10:59Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > This doesn’t exactly support the idea that the Clintons have a long and personal relationship with black folks. She never heard of The Talk before that? It’s largely irrelevant how she is or how she comes across to most of us on the dope. What’s relevant is how she and Sanders come across to African-Americans. They’ve made it abundantly clear they prefer her and he and his campaign, and his white supporters on social media come across like young men suffering from nice guy syndrome mansplaining about how girls reject him because he’s too nice. BTW, that’s not an attack on you and I’m not a Hillary fan. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/60 "2016-03-11T00:49:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You sure about that? I thought you were Asian. Or am I thinking of someone else. Black and Mexican from the Central Valley. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379.md?page=4)