# Why is Sanders weak in the South? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 9, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379 "2016-03-09T06:05:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/61 "2016-03-11T02:50:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > AFAICT, they see 90+% black voters voting for Democrats so they think Blacks must be very very Democratic. Then they look at Bernie and Hillary and Hillary is barely Democrat at all. So why don’t they vote for the MORE Democratic candidate?.. It is a bit odd to claim that the one who is not actually a member of the Democratic Party is the “MORE Democratic candidate.” I have been a Democrat for a long time and Clinton is to me by far more representative of the party. Perhaps you want to believe that Democratic means farther left and the more leftward you are the more “Democratic” you are. Funny that in [actual impartial ratings](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-was-liberal-hillary-clinton-is-liberal/) on actions and statements Clinton is a longstanding liberal, more liberal than is Warren and barely more moderate than Sanders. > [@538 back 5/19/15](#): > > To see how these different issues fit together to form an overall political ideology, we usually use three metrics: one based on congressional voting record, one based on public statements and one based on fundraising. > > Clinton was one of the most liberal members during her time in the Senate. According to an analysis of roll call votes by Voteview, Clinton’s record was more liberal than 70 percent of Democrats in her final term in the Senate. She was more liberal than 85 percent of all members. Her 2008 rival in the Democratic presidential primary, Barack Obama, was nearby with a record more liberal than 82 percent of all members — he was not more liberal than Clinton. > > Clinton also has a history of very liberal public statements. Clinton rates as a “hard core liberal” per the [OnTheIssues.org](http://OnTheIssues.org) scale. She is as liberal as Elizabeth Warren and barely more moderate than Bernie Sanders. And while Obama is also a “hard core liberal,” Clinton again was rated as more liberal than Obama. Let us be very clear: actual Democrats overwhelmingly vote for Clinton; Sanders wins more among those who may lean D but identify as Independents. You may want the Democratic party to be farther left than even Clinton has rated, but the party is not the Democratic Socialist Party and being that is not “more Democratic.” Don’t be silly. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/62 "2016-03-11T03:21:28Z")
It would be nice if the hashtag [#mississippiberning](http://mic.com/articles/137437/some-bernie-sanders-supporters-use-a-hashtag-that-suggests-they-have-no-clue-about-race#.c2M4FpnIv) didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/63 "2016-03-11T04:08:45Z")
Well said **DSeid**. ---
**Author:** ![john\_b\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@john\_b\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_b_2)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/64 "2016-03-29T20:05:53Z")
Bernie has a way of preaching to the choir, tends to say the same things to the same kinds of people wherever he goes. Hillary, love her or hate her, is a true pol, behaves in a way, and says things, that she feels will please whatever audience she addresses. From what I can tell Bernie is a mostly northern fringe candidate, with his greatest support in the northeast, New England, especially, and the upper midwest and northwest. Put him in a warm climate where guys drive pick-up trucks and are against gun control and he withers. He can’t connect with low to moderate income white Christians. This is a problem even I have with him and I’m from Bernie’s neck of the woods: he’s the dream candidate for a certain kind of highly educated elite Boomer yuppie, is fortunate to appeal to young yuppie wannabes as well, can’t seem to break through his own constituency, by which I mean expand it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/65 "2016-03-29T20:17:29Z")
> [@john\_b\_2](#): > > where guys drive pick-up trucks and are against gun control and he withers. He isn’t for gun control, he has that going for him here. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/66 "2016-03-29T20:56:22Z")
> [@john\_b\_2](#): > > Bernie has a way of preaching to the choir, tends to say the same things to the same kinds of people wherever he goes. Hillary, love her or hate her, is a true pol, behaves in a way, and says things, that she feels will please whatever audience she addresses. > > From what I can tell Bernie is a mostly northern fringe candidate, with his greatest support in the northeast, New England, especially, and the upper midwest and northwest. Put him in a warm climate where guys drive pick-up trucks and are against gun control and he withers. He can’t connect with low to moderate income white Christians. > > This is a problem even I have with him and I’m from Bernie’s neck of the woods: he’s the dream candidate for a certain kind of highly educated elite Boomer yuppie, is fortunate to appeal to young yuppie wannabes as well, can’t seem to break through his own constituency, by which I mean expand it. That was one of my main concerns with a Sanders candidacy as well-that he’d be another Eugene McCarthy/George McGovern/Gary Hart/Bill Bradley/Howard Dean type (of which Obama was also one to some degree although he benefitted by enjoying strong black support) of "progressive’ candidate who only had support from college students and the culturally left element of the bourgeoisie. However, election returns are suggesting that he indeed has an appeal to the white lower-middle and working-classes that these previous candidates did not. Consider these [election results](http://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/national-results-map) which show that Sanders won states like Oklahoma and did very well in areas like rural Missouri and Illinois. Even in the South, the counties that Sanders won aren’t the urban or suburban areas or even college towns but disaffected white areas in Appalachia and the Piney Woods of Florida. [Exit polls](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/02/09/us/elections/new-hampshire-democrat-poll.html?_r=0) confirm this with Sanders doing much better among whites who are lower-income and without college degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/67 "2016-03-29T21:18:30Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Hillary has overwhelming support of black southern Democrats. White southern Democrats are an endangered species. I’ll have you know, we here in Louisiana elected a Democratic governor. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/68 "2016-03-30T00:37:58Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It is a bit odd to claim that the one who is not actually a member of the Democratic Party is the “MORE Democratic candidate.” Is it literally true that Clinton is a “member” of the Democratic Party and Sanders is, currently, not? Either way, though, I agree with the point. Sanders talks about the Democratic Party like it is some wealthy entity utterly outside himself. That’s what actually impressed me in the video where he [apparently threatened to withhold a Clinton endorsement](http://mic.com/articles/138910/bernie-sanders-says-victory-means-more-than-beating-hillary-clinton?utm_source=policymicTWTR&utm_medium=policy&utm_campaign=social#.KEpShPvc2). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/69 "2016-03-30T00:43:46Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Is it literally true that Clinton is a “member” of the Democratic Party and Sanders is, currently, not? The only real measure of who is a member is looking at who chooses to put “(D)” after their names, so, yes, it’s literally true. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/70 "2016-03-30T01:34:52Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > I need to remember that I’m a black person from California. If you were a black person from Alabama, you would not need to remember, you would never be allowed to forget. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/71 "2016-03-30T01:36:49Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Is it literally true that Clinton is a “member” of the Democratic Party and Sanders is, currently, not? This ain’t Europe. Our two major parties have no members as such – no membership rolls, no membership cards, no membership dues, and no way to expel a member. If Lyndon LaRouche wants to call himself a Democrat or David Duke wants to call himself a Republican, then he is one. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/72 "2016-03-30T01:56:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If you were a black person from Alabama, you would not need to remember, you would never be allowed to forget. Counselor, you have the ugliest sig that I have ever seen. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/73 "2016-03-30T02:08:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > Is it literally true that Clinton is a “member” of the Democratic Party and Sanders is, currently, not? > > The only real measure of who is a member is looking at who chooses to put “(D)” after their names, so, yes, it’s literally true. Bernie Sanders has officially identified as a Democrat since [last year](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/sanders-files-new-hampshire-state-ballot-without-incident-n458271). ---
**Author:** ![john\_b\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@john\_b\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_b_2)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/74 "2016-03-30T02:17:01Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > That was one of my main concerns with a Sanders candidacy as well-that he’d be another Eugene McCarthy/George McGovern/Gary Hart/Bill Bradley/Howard Dean type (of which Obama was also one to some degree although he benefitted by enjoying strong black support) of "progressive’ candidate who only had support from college students and the culturally left element of the bourgeoisie. However, election returns are suggesting that he indeed has an appeal to the white lower-middle and working-classes that these previous candidates did not. Consider these [election results](http://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/national-results-map) which show that Sanders won states like Oklahoma and did very well in areas like rural Missouri and Illinois. Even in the South, the counties that Sanders won aren’t the urban or suburban areas or even college towns but disaffected white areas in Appalachia and the Piney Woods of Florida. [Exit polls](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/02/09/us/elections/new-hampshire-democrat-poll.html?_r=0) confirm this with Sanders doing much better among whites who are lower-income and without college degrees. Thanks. That cheers me up a little. Bernie seems more polarizing up north maybe. Or it could be (big duh! :rolleyes:) that the media is presenting Sanders in a way as to suggest that he’s not electable, has an essentially leafy suburb and college town base. It looks and feels that way when I watch the news, but then that’s **what I’m being told** , and it may not be true. ---
**Author:** ![john\_b\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@john\_b\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_b_2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/75 "2016-03-31T20:35:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ve never been able to understand why such a relatively poor and agrarian region as the South **isn’t** Communist – that is exactly the kind of environment that produced all the successful Communist revolutions of the 20th Century (in contradiction to Marx’ expectations that such would happen first in fully-industrialized countries like Britain and Germany) – but, there you are, culture is culture. My best answer is pride, racial and regional. The Civil War still (figuratively) rages in parts of the South; and we saw as recently as fifty years ago how deeply rooted in the past Southern culture was regarding race. I’m not even sure all the opposition to civil rights for blacks was truly racial,–that was, obviously, a huge part of it–but cultural, as in “no damn Yankee’s gonna tell me what I’ve gotta do, how to think, how to feel…etc.”. Now it’s more religion, it seems, and patriotism, American more than to the old Confederacy (that seems to be fading). The South is also a deeply indebted to the military region, is full of army and navy bases; aeronautics is big business down there. It’s just not like other places. I’ve known many Southerners, some quite well, including close friends, and also friends of my family when I was growing up. There are times when I swear that the real religion of the South is…the South. It’s a belief system. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/76 "2016-04-06T19:10:11Z")
Because he’s a COMMUNIST! Glenn Beck said so! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/77 "2016-04-06T20:51:43Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Sanders isn’t bad with the south, he is bad with black voters. Black voters make up the vast majority of Southern Democrats so his losses there are more pronounced. Sanders lost the black vote by about 3-1 in Michigan but he still won the state. Sanders consistently loses the black vote by 50-70 points. > > As to the reasons why, I’m not totally sure. Black voters are more socially conservative than white liberals, more religious, and Sanders economic speech has no real discussion of race. Even blacks when do well economically still face racial issues. Disclaimer: I’m pretty white last time I looked, so I can’t really speak for African Americans. Haven’t had the chance to talk about it with the black people I know. I’m only guessing here, but I’ll speculate: I think the name recognition of Hillary might be part of it. African Americans in the South simply know who she is. They have generally fond feelings toward Bill Clinton and the Clinton name. There was some friction when Hillary was running against Obama, but I actually remember a number of black people I was acquainted with who supported Clinton over Obama and were pretty bitter about it when Clinton went down, so go figure that one out. And I think she’s made up and mended fences with the black voters who supported Barack Obama, especially having served as his Sec of State. I think that blacks also compare the two when it comes to perceptions of toughness and who’s had to endure more. When they look at Clinton, they see themselves in her. They see someone who’s been vilified. They see someone who’s been targeted by a radical republican agenda, whose husband endured impeachment. They see someone who herself got bullied when she was trying to push for healthcare reform in the early 1990s. They know Hillary has gotten down and dirty, and she’s also had to work with and build broad coalitions of people. I’m not sure they see this with Sanders. Yes, Bernie has been an advocate for all people in the working class, and I think they appreciate that. But they’re not sure whether he can stand up to the forces that would oppose him in congress. It’s one thing to go around the state of Vermont championing positions that are on the edge. Bernie knows he doesn’t risk alienating voters in Vermont. Now try doing that with voters in Ohio and Florida, or try it in a 535 member body which represents places as liberal as Hawaii and as conservative as Indiana or Iowa. I think most people who support Bernie Sanders mean well – for everyone. I think that Bernie Sanders appeals to academic-minded whites because Bernie Sanders proposes some ideas that make sense. But people actually do consider more than just academic arguments when considering who they want to represent their causes. Black people, like a lot of white, latino, and asians, are thinking both academically and also pragmatically. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/78 "2016-04-06T21:53:02Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think the name recognition of Hillary might be part of it. I’ll take the same disclaimer as you, but I believe that is it. He was very popular here as Governor and President with African Americans, although I am told somewhat less after his welfare reform, limiting the time that a person was eligible. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/79 "2016-04-06T22:46:55Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think most people who support Bernie Sanders mean well – for everyone. …except Hillary supporters… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379/80 "2016-04-07T10:04:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > …except Hillary supporters… Meh, they’re just passionate about Sanders being the one guy who can fix things. They’re particularly committed to the movement to fund a campaign through individual donations, which appeals to me as well. I don’t necessarily see it as a sin to take political action committee money. PAC money influences policy, but it doesn’t always dictate policy. In the end, there are compromises to be made. Presidents have to negotiate and make deals with people they don’t like and partially accept ideas they may not like. You can do that and not sell out everything you stand for. That’s where I part ways with some of the Sanders ideological purists. But I think their passion is good for the progressive movement and the democratic party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-sanders-weak-in-the-south/748379.md?page=5)