# Why is Saskatchewan a pentagon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 25, 2007, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305 "2007-06-25T10:45:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/1 "2007-06-25T10:45:12Z")
The province of Saskatchewan is not the earth’s largest quadrilateral, contrary to how it might appear on some maps, because the eastern border of the province is crooked: instead of following a line of longitude, about halfway down it bends eastward. This makes the province’s border an irregular pentagon (well, provided we ignore the curvature of the northern and southern boundaries due to their being lines of latitute on a curved earth). So why the weird shape? Why didn’t they make the eastern border a straight line? Wikipedia briefly mentions something about surveyors “correcting” the line; what’s that supposed to mean? Would any Manitoban communities be displaced were the border to be straightened today? Finally, since Saskatchewan isn’t the earth’s largest quadrilateral formed by political borders, then what is? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/2 "2007-06-25T11:30:03Z")
The short answer is to [blame Manitoba](http://www.amls.ca/Manitoba.htm). > [@](#): > > (Manitoba’s) campaign for boundary extension continued throughout the 1870s. A minor adjustment, which took into account the township lines in the realignment of the western boundary, was granted in 1877. The change occurred after the land survey was completed when it was discovered that the original border actually dissected farm holdings in the margins of the province. The new boundary was moved a few miles west to the nearest township lines, and this accounts for the jagged appearance of the western border of the province. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/3 "2007-06-25T11:39:49Z")
This isn’t that weird – the same thing is true of some US states. If you look closely at the boundaries of states like Colorado you find that they are not, indeed, quadrilaterals, but have sides that ar in more than one piece. Local and historical conditions resulted in some weird boundaries (look at that weird little twerk in the Massachusetts-Connecticut border. Or that odd excursion northward in the Minnesota-Canada border). I’ve often thought that a study of the state boundaries would make a good topic for a book, but then I found that someone else thought so, too, and beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/4 "2007-06-25T12:22:20Z")
It seems that even when the state lines are _supposed_ to be straight, the conditions under which they were surveyed mean that they usually aren’t. Presumably the actual position of the monuments takes precedence over the intended “the border shall lie at latitude xx” wording, and the _de facto_ border is often a series of straight lines linking the survey monuments. You can see that pretty clearly when you look at a large-scale map. ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/5 "2007-06-25T13:00:42Z")
I think it’s the opposite – the monuments may be constructed incorrectly, and the only legally binding border is the one on the treaty everybody signed. ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/6 "2007-06-25T13:07:25Z")
And as for Saskatchewan’s border, the slight-angled pentagon isn’t the only irregularity. If you look closely, you’ll note that while the Alberta border is a straight line, the Manitoba border is a jagged edge, which was alluded to by **Tapioca Dextrin** but not stated outright. (sorry for the double post, my edit period expired) ---
**Author:** ![cantara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@cantara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cantara)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/7 "2007-06-25T13:09:17Z")
There are a number of ‘steps’ where the border makes a diversion straight west before heading north again, and a few instances of the border angling NW. One notable peculiarity is [Flin Flon](http://www.cityofflinflon.com/index-frameset.html) which lies [north](http://maps.google.ca/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&q=&safe=on&ll=54.762769,-101.855621&spn=0.045956,0.107632&t=h&z=13&om=1) of Saskatchewan… ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/8 "2007-06-25T13:19:57Z")
[QUOTE=Baffle] And as for Saskatchewan’s border, the slight-angled pentagon isn’t the only irregularity. If you look closely, you’ll note that while the Alberta border is a straight line, the Manitoba border is a jagged edge, which was alluded to by **Tapioca Dextrin** but not stated outright. [/QUOTE] Uh… isn’t this exactly what I said in my original post? ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/9 "2007-06-25T13:22:02Z")
No. You mentioned the pentagon bend but not the jagged edge. Also, the northern and southern boundaries are lines of _longitude_ and therefore not curved. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/10 "2007-06-25T13:26:56Z")
To elaborate on the link that **T. Dextrin** provided: If you look at the MB-SK border, you’ll notice that the southern section isn’t a straight line at all, but is rather a series of long segments going north followed by short segments heading west. (This can be seen on Google Maps, for instance.) From my elementary school days in Winnipeg, I seem to remember being told that this was because the curvature of the Earth makes it so that there’s less east-west distance between longitude lines; and rather than make the parcels of land smaller as you went north, it was decided to just scoot the western boundary over a few miles every so often and make the parcels roughly the same size. The net effect is that the southern section of Manitoba’s western border is actually roughly parallel with its eastern border, rather than the two borders getting closer together like one would expect. ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/11 "2007-06-25T13:28:34Z")
In correcting you I made my own mistake. They are lines of latitude, but latitude lines don’t curve. _coughs_ Anyway, to answer your final question in your first post, Colorado. “The State of Colorado is defined as the geospherical rectangle that stretches from 37°N to 41°N latitude and from 102°03’W to 109°03’W longitude (25°W to 32°W from the Washington Meridian).” ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/12 "2007-06-25T13:40:46Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] This isn’t that weird – the same thing is true of some US states. [/quote] But no American state border jukes _that_ much. The _cumulative_ effect of those stair-step juts in the Manitoba-Saskatchewan border must be . . . well, I don’t have a map in front of me, but it must be at least a hundred miles, since all of the juts go in the same direction. The surveyors up north must have had better hootch. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’ve often thought that a study of the state boundaries would make a good topic for a book, but then I found that someone else thought so, too, and beat me to it. Really? What’s the book? > [@Baffle](#): > > I think it’s the opposite – the monuments may be constructed incorrectly, and the only legally binding border is the one on the treaty everybody signed. Nay, nay–once a boundary is surveyed and monumented, it’s final–you can’t have American property owners suddenly finding out that they live in Canada. Most boundary treaties contain words to that effect–that the two nations will cooperate on surveying and monumenting the boundary, holding to the treaty line as best they can, and that when they’re done the monumented boundary is final. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/13 "2007-06-25T13:49:20Z")
Okay, I could’ve sworn that Colorado’s boundary jogged, but my search now turns up nothing but regularity ( **Baffle** ’s quote seems to be from Wikipedia, BTW). I do know that several boundaries of Western Statews that look regular ain’t, and I could’ve sworn Colorado or Wyoming had them. Apparently not. I can’t recall the name of the book on state boundaries – I didn’t buy a copy, sad to say. ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/14 "2007-06-25T14:07:58Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] ( **Baffle** ’s quote seems to be from Wikipedia, BTW). [/QUOTE] It is, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/15 "2007-06-25T14:55:30Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Okay, I could’ve sworn that Colorado’s boundary jogged, but my search now turns up nothing but regularity ( **Baffle** ’s quote seems to be from Wikipedia, BTW). I do know that several boundaries of Western Statews that look regular ain’t, and I could’ve sworn Colorado or Wyoming had them. Apparently not. I can’t recall the name of the book on state boundaries – I didn’t buy a copy, sad to say. [/QUOTE] It does jog. Just not by very much (about a mile). Where you want to look is on the western border, just south of rt 90, in Montrose County. Here: [http://www.google.com/maps?q=Bedrock,+CO,+USA&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=38.201497,-109.007721&spn=0.351274,0.578156&z=11&iwloc=addr](http://www.google.com/maps?q=Bedrock,+CO,+USA&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=38.201497,-109.007721&spn=0.351274,0.578156&z=11&iwloc=addr) I’ve asked about this one before, in one of the old “state boundary” threads. We suspected it was a surveyor’s error, but no cites. ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/16 "2007-06-25T15:09:21Z")
I respectfully withdraw my previous post and tenatively name Wyoming as the true answer to the question, awaiting proof that it is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/17 "2007-06-25T15:10:22Z")
If Google Maps is to be believed, there is a slight jog in the border with Oklahoma, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/18 "2007-06-25T15:15:57Z")
[QUOTE=Baffle] In correcting you I made my own mistake. They are lines of latitude, but latitude lines don’t curve. [/QUOTE] Actually, you were right about the lines of longitude not curving. Lines of latitude (except for the equator), do curve, forming concentric circles around the poles. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/19 "2007-06-25T15:25:47Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Smithee] If Google Maps is to be believed, there is a slight jog in the border with Oklahoma, as well. [/QUOTE] Interesting. I hadn’t known about that one. The bit on the western edge is visible on road atlases (just barely), and was a good bar bet long before “Google Maps” existed. This jog is on the southern border of the Comanche National Grassland, a few miles west of US 287/385 in the SE part of the state, and is also visible on my Rand McNally Road Atlas. Might as well provide this link, too: [http://www.google.com/maps?q=Bedrock,+CO,+USA&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=37.003375,-102.722168&spn=0.178489,0.289078&z=12&iwloc=addr](http://www.google.com/maps?q=Bedrock,+CO,+USA&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=37.003375,-102.722168&spn=0.178489,0.289078&z=12&iwloc=addr) ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305/20 "2007-06-25T15:46:12Z")
And Wyoming wiggles in several places, too, most noticeably on its northern border with Montana inside Yellowstone National Park. Also visible in the paper road atlas - on the Yellowstone Park map, not the general state map. As per **Colophon** , I believe we are looking at survey errors. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saskatchewan-a-pentagon/409305.md?page=2)