# Why is Saudi Arabia killing a journalist such a big issue **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 12, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880 "2018-10-12T22:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/61 "2018-10-17T17:37:45Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Where the actual fuck did I say that? > > Your argument can be summed up as _well its better to kill a 16 year old boy than an 8 year old girl_ AFAIK, you and I haven’t butted heads; so let me try to interpret. > [@Ravenman](#): > > I think you need to pick a side as to whether you support the assassination of non-violent people or not, rather than using any unjust killing to fuel more of your comments in disdain for America. ^This. That is to say, you posted an example of an American citizen who was killed – some would say ‘murdered’ – by Obama; but you did _not_ mention the other American citizen killed – some would say ‘murdered’ – by Trump. This implies that you think it’s OK for one party to kill American citizens, but not for the other side to do it. Whether you actually think this, it’s how people read it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/62 "2018-10-17T18:13:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think you need to pick a side as to whether you support the assassination of non-violent people or not, rather than using any unjust killing to fuel more of your comments in disdain for America. Maybe you can start by actually arguing the issue rather than running to your “OMG he is an America-hater” security blanket as per usual. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ^This. That is to say, you posted an example of an American citizen who was killed – some would say ‘murdered’ – by Obama; but you did _not_ mention the other American citizen killed – some would say ‘murdered’ – by Trump. This implies that you think it’s OK for one party to kill American citizens, but not for the other side to do it. Whether you actually think this, it’s how people read it. I posted an example of an ostensible American person killed on the express orders of the United States President. If you want more examples by other Presidents than I’ll happily oblige. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/63 "2018-10-17T18:17:16Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Maybe you can start by actually arguing the issue rather than running to your “OMG he is an America-hater” security blanket. When you introduce whataboutism into a discussion of the apparent murder of a journalist, you aren’t talking about the issue at hand. ETA: I mean, I could play the same game by talking about the recent Saudi missile strike that killed 40-something school children. But I don’t think that those unwarranted killings is relevant to this discussion either, notwithstanding your effort to want to talk about Yemen. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/64 "2018-10-17T18:26:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When you introduce whataboutism into a discussion of the apparent murder of a journalist, you aren’t talking about the issue at hand. > > ETA: I mean, I could play the same game by talking about the recent Saudi missile strike that killed 40-something school children. But I don’t think that those unwarranted killings is relevant to this discussion either, notwithstanding your effort to want to talk about Yemen. :rolleyes: You mean one of the shitload of weapon the United States Government has given the House of Saud? Sure, lets. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/65 "2018-10-17T18:32:11Z")
Ha ha ha, what an INCREDIBLE coincidence that the United States is brought up again, in one of your posts! ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/66 "2018-10-17T18:34:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Ha ha ha, what an INCREDIBLE coincidence that the United States is brought up again, in one of your posts! Yes, who would have thought that the Saudis biggest ally and supporter is brought up in a thread about Saudi Arabia?:rolleyes: I really should have brought up Argentina!. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/67 "2018-10-17T18:40:10Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yes, who would have thought that the Saudis biggest ally and supporter is brought up in a thread about Saudi Arabia?:rolleyes: I really should have brought up Argentina!. Did you say Argentina? Why didn’t you tell me you wanted to talk about CIA’s murderous interventions in Latin America!?! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/68 "2018-10-17T18:54:02Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :rolleyes: > You mean one of the shitload of weapon the United States Government has given the House of Saud? Sure, lets. So the US is to blame for the Saudis using the weapons? How about blaming the Saudis? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/69 "2018-10-17T19:11:10Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So the US is to blame for the Saudis using the weapons? How about blaming the Saudis? For Yemen? Hell yes. Both are in the dock. The US is up to its eyeballs in Yemen, and the raid you accused me of ignoring and the drone strike which liquidated a teenager both occurred there, ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/70 "2018-10-17T20:05:01Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > For Yemen? Hell yes. Both are in the dock. The US is up to its eyeballs in Yemen, and the raid you accused me of ignoring and the drone strike which liquidated a teenager both occurred there, So you are simultaneously arguing that the assassination of a journalist isn’t a big deal because the U.S. does similar things; and also saying what the U.S. does is terrible. That’s not a coherent principle. If it were, you’d be saying that both are terrible misdeeds – instead, your first post in this thread makes it sound like your criticism of the Saudis is mainly that they weren’t more efficient or secretive. Not that you actually believe they did it: innocent until proven guilty, eh? So when I hear your comments on this murder, I can’t hear any thing over the deafening noise of the grinding of an ax. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/71 "2018-10-17T21:07:27Z")
You are now totally incoherent, as per usual. I never said the action of killing Jamal Khashoggi was not evil. You are now adding words to my post. And in your patriotic indignation you fail to realize that something can be evil and stupid at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/72 "2018-10-17T21:55:21Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You know, I think the Saudis might well be innocent here. I mean, there is obvious but on the face of it deniable action like the Markov killing of the Salisbury poisoning, and then there is well…this. The Saudis have to know that even if the guy tripped his own shoelaces and broke his hip inside the consulate, they would be blamed. Seriously, if they intended to kill him, at this rate, it would have been better to take him back home and set up an appontment for him at chop chop square. > > Looking evil is “meh”. Looking stupid on the other hand… So your argument is that the Saudis are far too intelligent to misjudge Western reaction so badly, and far too humble to imagine they could get away with it… so it can’t possibly be true? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/73 "2018-10-17T22:18:53Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > There’s been an article in the WSJ every day since the story broke. The randos we were playing video games with online this weekend were talking about. not surprisingly, journalists are talking about journalists being murdered, but Americans are fine with the Saudis butchering American residents just so long as gas stays low enough that they can drive their fat asses in their suvs to the mall to get more Cinnabon. If the Saudis had performed an abortion in the consulate, maybe there’d be some GOP push back, but the second you suggest that maybe Americans should bike more and carpool to decrease our dependency on foreign oil, we will decide that the journalist had it coming. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/74 "2018-10-17T22:53:19Z")
IMHO, MBS has just sent a very powerful message to any expatriate Saudis who criticize his ‘reforms’ and to any of his cousins who might think of challenging him. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/75 "2018-10-18T04:49:52Z")
A stunning [story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/secret-recordings-give-insight-into-saudi-attempt-to-silence-critics/2018/10/17/fb333378-ce49-11e8-ad0a-0e01efba3cc1_story.html?utm_term=.b0d225666239) in the WaPost from and about a close friend of Khashoggi. > [@](#): > > …clandestine recordings — more than 10 hours of conversation — were provided to The Washington Post by Abdulaziz, a close associate of the missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. They offer a chilling depiction of how Saudi Arabia tries to lure opposition figures back to the kingdom with promises of money and safety. These efforts have sharply escalated since Mohammed became crown prince last year, rights groups say. > > Several of Khashoggi’s friends said that senior Saudi officials close to the crown prince had contacted him in recent months, even offering him a high-level job working for the government if he returned to the kingdom. He said he didn’t trust the offer, fearing it was a ruse. According to U.S. intelligence intercepts of Saudi officials, Mohammed had ordered an operation to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia from his home in Virginia and then detain him. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/76 "2018-10-18T05:37:12Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > If the Saudis fall, what replaces them? > > The Muslim Brotherhood? > Ba’athists? > The Sunni version the ayatollahs? > > I don’t see any good options on the horizon. Well I think we could have a meaningful discussion answering that rhetorical question, but is anyone talking regime change? The US should finally call SA on their shit, not so obviously take sides in the middle east (Iran=mordor, Saudi=very fine people) and do something about Yemen. None of this requires agitating for regime change. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/77 "2018-10-18T05:46:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I think the fact that the Republican President is engaging in a murder coverup to protect cash flows to his private businesses would be of interest to a lot of people, tbh. It should be. But we won’t have legitimate investigations for several years into any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/78 "2018-10-18T08:38:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yes. Exactly. What monsters [murder their own citizens over political differences.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki) :rolleyes: Whataboutism is not an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/79 "2018-10-18T17:38:07Z")
[Turkish media](https://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/one-of-15-member-squad-that-targeted-khashoggi-dies-in-suspicious-car-accident-3463852) are reporting that one of the suspected killers in the Jamaal Khashoggi murder has died in a ‘suspicious’ car crash. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/80 "2018-10-18T18:20:03Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > If the Saudis fall, what replaces them? Basically we are talking about the replacement of the current Crown Prince MBS by another member of the Royal Family–someone not as crazy/violent. No, this new Crown Prince and later King will not be a strong advocate of democracy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880.md?page=5)